From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-yb1-f177.google.com (mail-yb1-f177.google.com [209.85.219.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B40110E8 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 09:59:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-f177.google.com with SMTP id i15so24427011ybp.1 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 02:59:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linaro.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GW05uyYtAsujO2OLvJImyaOA91Ixa0fSxw+BLWoe2kU=; b=LVr7HtaLWo+wKKpgXa3oSQ5tRISdegig8ZvaooQURhakNAqFYQWdZf+bR2rjTQYt+y +pQk4oH4AKgj/0pKn2q9PS4X6CFIC844H5qcZNcHVRV0fKgAt+7sqKh0ifnq+HYz6Wwj p9vc25XisQvipkKxS9usAOR0sCyvjPqAPGAdJFWD8ruH94z0U3bFHc/UXllSbwpoWCxx sQ02/MslD6ksRVb1RhFxv33K+ySHeR8gRtMLbc1vAhmwZXplbR67NhpLaJl2x/KvPgU1 JJyQVU5URycg6Q5e5joetENZlX5TKn/jlvpurfkqNzw12Q8MOTEPXXG+sgngxxeEoI9x bJ9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GW05uyYtAsujO2OLvJImyaOA91Ixa0fSxw+BLWoe2kU=; b=YQ0JXMv7zWE2lRcOwiaqij4eg04udI+yg3qBuFGT/bi/SCHHCuwdMu72UAy2EkvEp6 aisGTtlxACrz563YqkXcH7YW2i04AwvApBrDKyrlK6qL/JceyDijeS6fbN0v/vfNGFXx /PBm5nVnEOuIDEWk4PZd0ksWVepywmh8V5TiBsD0LKbWN43mqAvG9ySOpXypPdt09zcW LpEqni+SLcbwjx6zVfxAXWrlws3gkBHETFK9xdsHM2uKLc1mXipKJSuXt8l8Ca4PywEA WgyEjab/Z+b6q5DZJbl0b8lshqoqjLfodj40lm1w8HcVQmfjZWM3e4JrjFX3DBQzxa1X Atuw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8Mqx32OzgdLjaCN61v563jRZriSOiSi9lME+/mBqPK1G3FJHrU vojoSgTSiOo7DK2FSD0PfbbGSnnJatV0NAa9DLO/RQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uaqvFVM30TKnG97vVA8KCZQk+YEuLveQ9Q7DVf1w1EDJv1IVOmVfVUOxprDSRnR95RqQHaHGDF2c4sGT3a8sU= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ed03:0:b0:668:b0ed:ac42 with SMTP id k3-20020a25ed03000000b00668b0edac42mr2746107ybh.533.1655891954544; Wed, 22 Jun 2022 02:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2513dc4528c71d34d400c104e91ada6517869886.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Linus Walleij Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 11:59:03 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Are we becoming too fearful? [was Re: [TECH TOPIC] Rust] To: James Bottomley Cc: Laurent Pinchart , Jens Axboe , Christoph Hellwig , Miguel Ojeda , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, ksummit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 4:45 PM James Bottomley wrote: > I think there's a growing problem in Linux which is exemplified by this > Rust debate but which goes way beyond it: We're becoming too fearful of > making big decisions to sustain innovation in some areas. I agree. > This really > is a creeping cancer of inertia that has destroyed many projects before > us and if we're not careful, we'll go the same way. Strong words. This phenomenon is known from organization theory. Organization theory exist in dry and tasteless versions and some more colorful and spicy versions. Let's revisit the most spicy and colorful of them all, Cyril Norhcote Parkinson, a true representative of the atomic space age. In his famous book "Parkinson's Law" from 1957 (a book passed to me from my great grandfather, and annoyingly relevant to this day), in the last chapter titled "Pension point, or the age of retirement" he touches on the subject. There might be an illicit copy here, page 42: http://sas2.elte.hu/tg/ptorv/Parkinson-s-Law.pdf Parkinson is writing satire and it is a clear hyperbole. But it isn't funny if it isn't relevant. He saw the same thing as you see, and just state (apparently based on nothing but his own experience) that a persons "age of wisdom" is followed by the "age of obstruction". Just constant risk avoidance. Blaeh. Boring. I don't know about eBPF, but Rust is nice. Let's merge it and see what happens. As one of my friends working in embedded systems said: "this is the only new thing I have seen in my career, the rest is just repetitions of the past", and I agree with that. My biggest worry is that the kernel community can become irrelevant for young people as a demographic. Young people like things like Rust and web-based merge requests on github. They are also very smart. So I see it as partly an inclusion problem. Yours, Linus Walleij