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From: Linus Walleij <linus.walleij@linaro.org>
To: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>
Cc: Leon Romanovsky <leon@kernel.org>,
	"a. Miguel Ojeda" <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com>,
	 ksummit@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [TECH TOPIC] Rust for Linux
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 20:09:01 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CACRpkdaoGEVwjh902_r=KA=dnPu-vdbKe-xXiLbdjLR1-DqQ0w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <19e0f737a3e58ed32758fb4758393c197437e8de.camel@HansenPartnership.com>

On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 12:20 PM James Bottomley
<James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com> wrote:

> 3. Less review: The lack of kernel programmers understanding rust
> hampers reviewing.  Since most of our CVE type problems are usually
> programming mistakes nowadays, the lack of review could contribute to
> an increase in programming fault type bugs which aren't forbidden by
> the safer memory model.

The rationale not stated explicitly by the Rust enthusiasts is based
on the assumption that the language has a broad uptake and that
the crowd of developers embracing Rust will increase over time,
and especially that new young, fresh developers will know Rust
better than C.

If over time this becomes (by assumption) an increasing crowd of
Rust-interested developers who think C is primitive and last years
news and do not want to work with it, then the assumption is true.

This has limited evidence but is I think based on StackOverflow
surveys of "most loved language" and such. Overall the people
promoting Rust believe in this and they also apparently feel a strong
sense of belonging wrt the language.

I think it is a fair reason. Any push into any new technology needs to
be driven by belief and enthusiasm, i.e. emotions. That's fine. Such
was Unix and C, and such was Linux, too. Not everything is rational.

Yours,
Linus Walleij

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-07-06 18:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 201+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-06-25 22:09 [TECH TOPIC] Rust for Linux Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-05 23:51 ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-06  4:30   ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-07-06  9:55     ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-06 10:16       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-06 17:59         ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-06 18:36           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 19:12             ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-06 21:32               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 14:10             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-07-07 15:28               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 15:50                 ` Andrew Lunn
2021-07-07 16:34                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 16:55                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-07-07 17:54                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 10:22       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-07-06 14:30       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 14:32         ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 15:03         ` Sasha Levin
2021-07-06 15:33           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 15:42             ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-06 16:09               ` Mike Rapoport
2021-07-06 18:29               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 18:38                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-06 19:45                   ` Steven Rostedt
2021-07-06 19:59                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 18:53             ` Sasha Levin
2021-07-06 21:50               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07  4:57                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-07-07 13:39                 ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-07-07 13:50                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 18:26         ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-06 19:11           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 19:13         ` Johannes Berg
2021-07-06 19:43           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 10:20     ` James Bottomley
2021-07-06 14:55       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 15:01         ` Sasha Levin
2021-07-06 15:36           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-09 10:02         ` Marco Elver
2021-07-09 16:02           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 18:09       ` Linus Walleij [this message]
2021-07-06 14:24     ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-06 14:33       ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-06 14:56       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-07-06 15:29         ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07  4:38           ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-07-06 20:00   ` Roland Dreier
2021-07-06 20:36     ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-06 22:00       ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-07  7:27         ` Julia Lawall
2021-07-07  7:45           ` Greg KH
2021-07-07  7:52             ` James Bottomley
2021-07-07 13:49               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 14:08                 ` James Bottomley
2021-07-07 15:15                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 15:44                     ` Greg KH
2021-07-07 17:01                       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-07 17:20                         ` Greg KH
2021-07-07 19:19                           ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-07 20:38                             ` Jan Kara
2021-07-07 23:09                               ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-08  6:11                                 ` Greg KH
2021-07-08 13:36                                   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-08 18:51                                     ` Greg KH
2021-07-08 19:31                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-07-08 19:35                                         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 21:56                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-07-08 19:49                                       ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-08 20:34                                         ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08 22:13                                           ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-09  7:24                                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-19 12:24                                             ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-19 13:15                                               ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-19 14:02                                                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-07-19 14:13                                                   ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-19 21:32                                                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-07-19 21:33                                                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-07-20  1:46                                                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-20  6:43                                                         ` Johannes Berg
2021-07-19 14:43                                                   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-19 18:24                                                     ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 18:47                                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2021-07-19 14:54                                                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 17:32                                                   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-19 21:31                                                     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-07-19 17:37                                                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 16:02                                                 ` Vegard Nossum
2021-07-19 17:45                                                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 17:54                                                     ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 18:06                                                   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-19 19:37                                                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-19 21:09                                                       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-20 23:54                                                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-21  1:33                                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-07-21  1:42                                                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-21 13:54                                                               ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-21 14:13                                                                 ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-21 14:19                                                                   ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-22 11:33                                                                     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-23  0:45                                                                       ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-21  4:39                                                             ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-23  1:04                                                               ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-21  4:23                                                           ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-23  1:13                                                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-19 22:57                                                 ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-07-20  7:15                                                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-20  9:39                                                     ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-07-20 12:10                                                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 13:53                                               ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-19 14:42                                                 ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-19 22:16                                                   ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-20  1:20                                                     ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-20 13:21                                                       ` Andrew Lunn
2021-07-20 13:38                                                         ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-20 14:04                                                           ` Andrew Lunn
2021-07-20 13:55                                                         ` Greg KH
2021-07-20  1:21                                                     ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-20 16:00                                                       ` Mark Brown
2021-07-20 22:42                                                       ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-19 14:43                                                 ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-19 15:15                                                   ` Andrew Lunn
2021-07-19 15:43                                                     ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-09  7:03                                         ` Viresh Kumar
2021-07-09 17:06                                         ` Mark Brown
2021-07-09 17:43                                           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-10  9:53                                             ` Jonathan Cameron
2021-07-10 20:09                                         ` Kees Cook
2021-07-08 13:55                                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08 14:58                                     ` Greg KH
2021-07-08 15:02                                       ` Mark Brown
2021-07-08 16:38                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-07-08 18:01                                         ` Greg KH
2021-07-08 18:00                                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08 18:44                                         ` Greg KH
2021-07-08 23:09                                           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08  7:20                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 13:41                                   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-08 13:43                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 13:54                                       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-08 14:16                                         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 14:24                                           ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-09  7:04                                             ` Jerome Glisse
2021-07-08 14:04                                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08 14:18                                         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 14:28                                           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08 14:33                                             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 14:35                                               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-09 11:55                                                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-08 16:07                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-07-07 20:58                           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 21:47                             ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-07 22:44                               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 17:01           ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 10:50       ` Mark Brown
2021-07-07 10:56         ` Julia Lawall
2021-07-07 11:27           ` James Bottomley
2021-07-07 11:34         ` James Bottomley
2021-07-07 12:20           ` Greg KH
2021-07-07 12:38             ` James Bottomley
2021-07-07 12:45               ` Greg KH
2021-07-07 17:17                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-08  6:49                   ` cdev/devm_* issues (was Re: [TECH TOPIC] Rust for Linux) Greg KH
2021-07-08  8:23                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-08 23:06                     ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-09  0:02                       ` Dan Williams
2021-07-09 16:53                       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2021-07-13  8:59                         ` Linus Walleij
     [not found]                           ` <CAHp75VfW7PxAyU=eYPNWFU_oUY=aStz-4W5gX87KSo402YhMXQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-21 13:46                             ` Linus Walleij
2021-07-21 15:49                               ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-07-10  7:09                     ` Dan Carpenter
2021-07-12 13:42                       ` Jason Gunthorpe
2021-07-15  9:54                     ` Daniel Vetter
2021-07-21  9:08                       ` Dan Carpenter
2021-07-22  9:56                         ` Daniel Vetter
2021-07-22 10:09                           ` Dan Carpenter
2021-07-08  9:08                   ` [TECH TOPIC] Rust for Linux Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-07-10 16:42                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-10 17:18                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2021-07-07 15:17           ` Mark Brown
2021-07-06 21:45     ` Bart Van Assche
2021-07-06 23:08       ` Stephen Hemminger
2021-07-07  2:41         ` Bart Van Assche
2021-07-07 18:57           ` Linus Torvalds
2021-07-07 20:32             ` Bart Van Assche
2021-07-07 20:39               ` Linus Torvalds
2021-07-07 21:40                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-08  7:22                 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-07-07 21:02               ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-07 22:11               ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 22:43                 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-07 23:21                   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 23:40                     ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-08  0:27                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-08  0:56                         ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-07-08  6:26             ` Alexey Dobriyan
2021-07-06 19:05 ` Bart Van Assche
2021-07-06 19:27   ` Miguel Ojeda
2021-07-07 15:48 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-07-07 16:44   ` Miguel Ojeda
2023-08-07 10:03 Miguel Ojeda

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