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From: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
To: Shuah Khan <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab+huawei@kernel.org>
Cc: ksummit@lists.linux.dev
Subject: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2021 08:42:58 -0700
Message-ID: <a72a13e56ee5f19b0dee9ae8c1928b020e8809c2.camel@HansenPartnership.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <0d83502f-eb29-9b06-ada8-fcd03f9c87a8@linuxfoundation.org>

On Thu, 2021-04-22 at 09:34 -0600, Shuah Khan wrote:
> On 4/22/21 4:35 AM, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> > Hi James,
> > 
> > Em Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:35:36 -0700
> > James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com> escreveu:
> > 
> > > I've long been on record as not really being a fan of trivial
> > > patches
> > > because they can cause merge issues with current patches and
> > > introduce
> > > bugs, particularly in older drivers, that don't get detected for
> > > a long
> > > while.  However, the recent events with the University of
> > > Minnesota:
> > > 
> > > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20210421130105.1226686-1-gregkh@linuxfoundation.org/
> > > 
> > > Have elevated the risk factor around trivial patches claiming to
> > > fix
> > > bugs to the point where it looks like there's no such thing as a
> > > truly
> > > trivial patch and they all need reviewing.
> > > 
> > > Our policy in SCSI for a long time has been no trivial patches
> > > accepted
> > > to maintained drivers, and I think that would be a good start if
> > > adopted kernel wide, but I think the next policy should be no
> > > trivial
> > > bug fix without a pointer to the actual bug report or report from
> > > a
> > > trusted static checker.  This would likely mean we have to create
> > > a
> > > list of trusted static checkers ... obviously 0day and coverity
> > > but
> > > what else?
> > 
> > I agree that we should have a "Rethinking the acceptance policy"
> > talk
> > at the Maintainer Summit, but it should cover a scope wider than
> > just
> > trivial patches. At least the patches I checked, sent from
> > "@unm.edu"
> > to media subsystem, they all looked good enough to be merged[1].
> > 
> > The main question is actually what's the degree of confidence a
> > maintainer can rely on a patch sent from a random contributor.
> > 
> > That's not an easy task.
> > 
> > I mean, usually, each maintainer develops internally a "trust
> > score"
> > from subsystem's contributors, but such trustee level is usually
> > not
> > shared with other maintainers.
> > 
> > When a developer reaches a certain level, maintainers are willing
> > to merge their work faster as they know that the developer is
> > there for a while and it is not trying to harm the community.
> > 
> > Perhaps one thing that we could add would be a
> > scripts/get_developer_trustee_status, which would be returning
> > a set of indicators that would help the maintainer to know
> > how much it can trust a random contributor, like:
> > 
> > 	- how many drivers and patches a contributor has written;
> > 	- how long and how frequent he's sending Kernel patches;
> > 	- what subsystems received patches from him;
> > 	- if the developer isn't on a blacklist/graylist.
> > 
> > 
> 
> This will put new developers at disadvantage. Let's think this
> through before adding barriers for entry.

OK, so I think there are several separate topics now:

   1. how trust is generated in the ecosystem.  I think that's a long
      conversation and one of the big dangers is actually not only
      discouraging new entrants but also drive by submitters, who by their
      very nature will not have the necessary trust flag.  I still think
      if you don't know the submitter, you can still trust the code if you
      can clearly see what it's doing and why.
   2. Improving the requirement for bug fixes and large series, like cover
      letters to everyone, adding fixes: tag and clear explanation.
   3. Better handling of "trivial" changes, say via a resurrected trivial
      tree

James



  reply index

Thread overview: 152+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-04-21 18:35 James Bottomley
2021-04-21 18:46 ` Christian Borntraeger
2021-04-21 18:51 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2021-04-21 18:53   ` Christian Borntraeger
2021-04-21 19:06 ` Al Viro
2021-04-21 19:14 ` James Bottomley
2021-04-21 19:22 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-21 19:26   ` Kees Cook
2021-04-21 19:32   ` Roland Dreier
2021-04-21 19:55     ` Julia Lawall
2021-04-21 20:28       ` Stephen Hemminger
2021-04-21 20:37         ` Julia Lawall
2021-04-21 20:45           ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-21 20:50             ` Julia Lawall
2021-04-21 21:03               ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-21 21:37           ` James Morris
2021-04-22  7:34             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-04-22  7:51               ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22  8:45                 ` Christian Brauner
2021-04-22 15:27                   ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22  9:39                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22  9:55               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 12:01                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 12:26                   ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 12:35                     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 12:52                       ` Hans Verkuil
2021-04-22 13:33                       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 13:42                         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 12:18                 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 15:38                   ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-23  9:06                     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23 17:17                       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-23 22:41                       ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22  5:59     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-22  6:28       ` Tomasz Figa
2021-04-22  7:05         ` Al Viro
2021-04-22  7:46           ` Al Viro
2021-04-22  7:06         ` H. Peter Anvin
2021-04-22  7:05       ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22 16:05       ` Roland Dreier
2021-04-22 16:24         ` Krzysztof Kozlowski
2021-04-22 18:03       ` Al Viro
2021-04-22 22:35         ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 22:53           ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-21 19:30 ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-21 20:28   ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-21 22:18     ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-21 23:17       ` Guenter Roeck
2021-04-21 23:21         ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-21 19:47 ` Dan Carpenter
2021-04-22  9:34   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22  9:59     ` Johannes Berg
2021-04-22 10:52       ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 12:16         ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22 13:41           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 20:15       ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-04-23  0:09         ` Randy Dunlap
2021-04-21 19:49 ` Alexandre Belloni
2021-04-22  2:05 ` Martin K. Petersen
2021-04-22  3:04   ` Joe Perches
2021-04-22 10:13     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 12:07     ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 16:42     ` Bart Van Assche
2021-04-22 17:58       ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22  4:21 ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22  4:56   ` Al Viro
2021-04-22  5:52     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22  6:05     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-22  6:03   ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-22  6:18     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22  9:20   ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 11:34     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:22       ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 13:47         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:51           ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 14:12         ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 14:51           ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:29       ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 13:58         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 14:20         ` Rob Herring
2021-04-23  6:04           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23  6:46             ` Joe Perches
2021-04-23  7:13               ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23  7:20                 ` [PATCH RFC] scripts: add a script for sending patches Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23 14:52                 ` Better tools for sending patches (was: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches) Doug Anderson
2021-04-23 16:03                   ` Mark Brown
2021-04-23 17:12                     ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-26 23:50                       ` Simon Glass
2021-04-22 12:53     ` [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 13:08       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 13:27         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 13:41           ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 16:28           ` Serge E. Hallyn
2021-04-22 17:56       ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 18:05         ` backfilling threads with b4 (was: Re: [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches) Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-23  7:19       ` [MAINTAINER SUMMIT] Rethinking the acceptance policy for "trivial" patches Greg KH
2021-04-23  7:31       ` Christian Brauner
2021-04-23 18:50         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 12:40   ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 12:54     ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22 13:23       ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 15:19         ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 21:19           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 21:36             ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 22:39               ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-23  0:26                 ` Joe Perches
2021-04-23  6:15           ` Greg KH
2021-04-23  6:50             ` Dan Williams
2021-04-23  7:13             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-04-23 14:41               ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-23  9:12             ` Michal Hocko
2021-04-22 14:51       ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-22 15:14         ` Mike Rapoport
2021-04-22 15:17           ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-22 15:35             ` Al Viro
2021-04-22 15:32           ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22 10:35 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 11:03   ` Sudip Mukherjee
2021-04-22 14:00     ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 14:07       ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22 15:31         ` Sudip Mukherjee
2021-04-22 21:33           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 20:28     ` Andrew Morton
2021-04-22 20:46       ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 12:32   ` Martin K. Petersen
2021-04-22 15:11     ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-04-22 15:28     ` James Bottomley
2021-04-22 15:35       ` Johannes Berg
2021-04-22 15:36       ` Mark Brown
2021-04-22 15:40         ` James Bottomley
2021-04-23  9:27         ` Dan Carpenter
2021-04-22 13:24   ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 14:31     ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-22 15:34   ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22 15:42     ` James Bottomley [this message]
2021-04-22 15:48       ` James Bottomley
2021-04-22 15:52         ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 16:08           ` Shuah Khan
2021-04-22 16:13           ` Jan Kara
2021-04-22 17:04             ` Steven Rostedt
2021-04-22 17:08             ` Martin K. Petersen
2021-04-23 11:16               ` Jan Kara
2021-04-23 12:57                 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23  7:58           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-04-23 10:54             ` Greg KH
2021-04-23 17:09             ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 16:23         ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-04-22 16:38       ` Bart Van Assche
2021-04-22 16:57         ` Leon Romanovsky
2021-04-22 18:03         ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-22 21:26           ` Thomas Gleixner
2021-04-22 21:36             ` Jiri Kosina

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