From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mout-xforward.gmx.net (mout-xforward.gmx.net [82.165.159.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B902C33C1; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 12:16:48 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1664885791; bh=bpj4hT8aKCM5j/PSqq2l+Mhtjnt1+/PxDY0aFNs17Cs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=XaCpZHtgZZcIk8afsOe0AFcPyFP3S8cNcnJucbF/apJ6KM8zz2HmSQEeZqzzIwsVL bh+504f+eodqQA5p0vMEeVCE5kmiSaTZcyA9OJX1/+dZ/ITCFit6bvgkmqPVCRoUjD EmlEHXAKdyj/yqs9FkIoeCd01LoGKe9n+QMolCLg= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [10.17.110.14] ([143.244.37.77]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M3DJl-1ocfdj438n-003dB9; Tue, 04 Oct 2022 14:16:31 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 12:16:28 +0000 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Planned changes for bugzilla.kernel.org to reduce the "Bugzilla blues" To: Steven Rostedt Cc: Geert Uytterhoeven , Mike Rapoport , Al Viro , Theodore Ts'o , Thorsten Leemhuis , Greg KH , Konstantin Ryabitsev , workflows@vger.kernel.org, LKML , Linus Torvalds , "regressions@lists.linux.dev" , ksummit@lists.linux.dev, Mario Limonciello References: <79bb605a-dab8-972d-aa4a-a5e5ee49387c@gmx.com> <20221002141321.394de676@rorschach.local.home> <6de0925c-a98a-219e-eed2-ba898ef974f8@gmx.com> <20221002180844.2e91b1f1@rorschach.local.home> <3a3b9346-e243-e178-f8dd-f8e1eacdc6ae@gmx.com> <251201be-9552-3a51-749c-3daf4d181250@gmx.com> <1d3fdc6a-a98a-fe3b-2e3e-acc2ffa24f9d@gmx.com> <20221003102029.1fe4f31b@gandalf.local.home> From: "Artem S. Tashkinov" In-Reply-To: <20221003102029.1fe4f31b@gandalf.local.home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:SLfgjVdlF7X2l/Rg+z8mjWCt4AvRLhhZPbCaKSNbyrV4j/6O0gj uk2033ABnu5nBei7NAIDbVgfLGxK5/Fh+BXc88Nw4CpMU/JCJbfcw3Lv6E4ZrjcaueKDtnJ BDZ+Khl6ICrWZ0D323ER/PZaeHYgVduAC5rOku2OHxS/i7vYSkLCpKBgnm90va2y5mqdw9L RKF8TM4TQgrKoHSISVnRA== X-Spam-Flag: YES X-UI-Out-Filterresults: junk:10;V03:K0:TkA4SQZEqIQ=:VI+bDZS2UvDLj2IMmM+ofbOH PJr68FLrJFgSaJIT2PY/2K8MspuiefGLtIxN7rxW4LyYzFD67vFJQ9GvzLx7siIIvZ2rU/OvS r7c+B71IqGDHCmmJ+gmaT4lv6+O+rWl/YEn93X1PXg2VKvagZ04zCF5yeqfiJtUqEh3NSFtYF 3Lptld4ic7OIEG75xC7DhTgEaLSeJEQME2rP4MedTirZL2uHvWHq8l5pnffkMg3W42SuoEOA6 BTElgax42aOtaXRduBevj05D/c0kvuKhWFQCmfNyFDe65kh5uXLB90/fsE1Hsrr2It650v9wK 0Xbw/TsqH8msdIKLKaHUc5+aqGuYELccEmA7v2+R17ZH+6cYEewf5mc9mIZfE8MgORYPfrRu7 E1oTEaQFNNgU2MurWBrdsAbkKvMc55p8D9EgS0QQk+Z10J8UjvwNfoXZFZUcGYvjbTie/s4+m oO+eXSPkVr28g+IQWj1wuEE1zDBZGUWSJRMzb7WlQRY6JYIyje64VwkZ9a2nDS5AiGSVUNpga P7rlc94OmTScgQN04WAxaRWCeLusd4k3bH9V4PnCQvVMCdl7WgV0eyHDliD6cA15HuVeVo9CR 0NVmDpOi4PU37N+WoBc0k12vZeBoqHCOAm1KM2VNzHQHpw65zNbww9ypIiMWiI2gj+u4QDg+R EnL+rqbEjCVfdwFl8dUnXMl90PGhfvT8lwAoO0y5Lq/o/KTpo/8R8N3+cnBOOm+KFh0dxgv+O t5LQ0/dvEghPWwZpDobXOMpqetwTCVbaH8gXj07TnXU0Wu9nQRi5w9R9UeslvgxJiODBmcC24 9wLlVduDd/Nw7qDDkyGJgqHPAUrCPtLkXQRearVWm2bwhKWIeXeSLhlPrAWbcGzQfPlvUu7pB dhH7ORMfbefwnqSUzxG3qr/0oAx6t4HorYzLany6VG7Vhw5VsxctRLkR1pM2vMBY5hcz4/XtG k/SPvH+WBj56cmNvgi4M0QsLqV4VrJWYyMLO/9rpudLLNzqoUyuNAluCI+UjfusrXbDlsr14Z PRDKwf645+Fd/I9CYGhHDgVX6ZzjnVIZUF4akC+GnALGv6ejEWLGov8zmdt0LtDyn/BRwkjkd MkolhIMjrK6BboYAJCbGJbwetRMrxuybG3yRMZ7D2R1c4ULRyKRfvKc2e5q43+elnr3/2c3Ip HncEsiGEqaqPjRwd/ww9bjybnU1Qsnq3owKAHB+2fGCDnQ== On 10/3/22 14:20, Steven Rostedt wrote: > On Mon, 3 Oct 2022 09:40:43 +0000 > "Artem S. Tashkinov" wrote: > >> For instance, I've CC'ed Linus Torvalds _privately_ from Bugzilla twice >> and he _chimed_ in and _helped_ resolve the bugs. > > You didn't Cc Linus _privately_, because you Cc'd him from Bugzilla. I'm > guessing that means it's a public conversation. Which is similar to Cc'i= ng > a maintainer and a public mailing list. I _did_ CC him privately by adding his _personal_ e-mail. I'm astonished not only you don't believe me you turn my words inside out. > >> My messages to LKML >> were _ignored_ by +1000 people subscribed to it. > > LKML gets 800 emails a day. Nobody reads it (besides Jon Corbet and Andr= ew > Morton). But if you send email to a maintainer privately without Cc'ing = any > public mailing list (or Bugzilla), then it will likely be ignored. Wow, so pretty much the vast majority of people here advocate for deprecating Bugzilla and asking non-IT people to use something which is essentially a ... SPAM list? Woah. I've given almost a dozen reasons why mailing lists simply don't work as a bug tracker in absolute most cases. BTW, this discussion is a perfect f-ing example of that. What could have been easily read in a tracker needs to be repeated over and over and over again because you didn't bother to read previous messages 'cause you were busy, not paying attention, simply forgot and you don't want to scroll days of messages in your inbox. God, this is so ugly it's cringe worthy. Most people here who advocate for killing off Bugzilla: 1) Have _never_ used it 2) Have troubles even following _this_ conversation That' ridiculous. > > What we are saying is, you need to do both. Cc the maintainer _and_ a > public mailing list. That way the maintainer knows others can see it, an= d > could point someone else to look at it if they do not have the time, or > they know someone who can better help. > > -- Steve