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From: Sean Christopherson <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>
To: Marc Zyngier <maz@kernel.org>
Cc: "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@shutemov.name>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	Vitaly Kuznetsov <vkuznets@redhat.com>,
	Wanpeng Li <wanpengli@tencent.com>,
	Jim Mattson <jmattson@google.com>, Joerg Roedel <joro@8bytes.org>,
	David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>, Will Drewry <wad@chromium.org>,
	"Edgecombe, Rick P" <rick.p.edgecombe@intel.com>,
	"Kleen, Andi" <andi.kleen@intel.com>,
	x86@kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com>,
	kernel-team@android.com, will@kernel.org,
	Jun Nakajima <jun.nakajima@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC 00/16] KVM protected memory extension
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 08:48:35 -0700
Message-ID: <20200604154835.GE30223@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200604161523.39962919@why>

+Jun

On Thu, Jun 04, 2020 at 04:15:23PM +0100, Marc Zyngier wrote:
> Hi Kirill,
> 
> Thanks for this.
> 
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 15:51:58 +0300
> "Kirill A. Shutemov" <kirill@shutemov.name> wrote:
> 
> > == Background / Problem ==
> > 
> > There are a number of hardware features (MKTME, SEV) which protect guest
> > memory from some unauthorized host access. The patchset proposes a purely
> > software feature that mitigates some of the same host-side read-only
> > attacks.
> > 
> > 
> > == What does this set mitigate? ==
> > 
> >  - Host kernel ”accidental” access to guest data (think speculation)
> > 
> >  - Host kernel induced access to guest data (write(fd, &guest_data_ptr, len))
> > 
> >  - Host userspace access to guest data (compromised qemu)
> > 
> > == What does this set NOT mitigate? ==
> > 
> >  - Full host kernel compromise.  Kernel will just map the pages again.
> > 
> >  - Hardware attacks
> 
> Just as a heads up, we (the Android kernel team) are currently
> involved in something pretty similar for KVM/arm64 in order to bring
> some level of confidentiality to guests.
> 
> The main idea is to de-privilege the host kernel by wrapping it in its
> own nested set of page tables which allows us to remove memory
> allocated to guests on a per-page basis. The core hypervisor runs more
> or less independently at its own privilege level. It still is KVM
> though, as we don't intend to reinvent the wheel.
> 
> Will has written a much more lingo-heavy description here:
> https://lore.kernel.org/kvmarm/20200327165935.GA8048@willie-the-truck/

Pardon my arm64 ignorance...

IIUC, in this mode, the host kernel runs at EL1?  And to switch to a guest
it has to bounce through EL2, which is KVM, or at least a chunk of KVM?
I assume the EL1->EL2->EL1 switch is done by trapping an exception of some
form?

If all of the above are "yes", does KVM already have the necessary logic to
perform the EL1->EL2->EL1 switches, or is that being added as part of the
de-privileging effort?
 
> This works for one of the virtualization modes that arm64 can use (what
> we call non-VHE, or nVHE for short). The other mode (VHE), is much more
> similar to what happens on other architectures, where the kernel and
> the hypervisor are one single entity. In this case, we cannot use the
> same trick with nested page tables, and have to rely on something that
> would very much look like what you're proposing.
> 
> Note that the two modes of the architecture would benefit from this
> work anyway, as I'd like the host to know that we've pulled memory
> from under its feet. Since you have done most of the initial work, I
> intend to give it a go on arm64 shortly and see what sticks.



  reply index

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-22 12:51 Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:51 ` [RFC 01/16] x86/mm: Move force_dma_unencrypted() to common code Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 02/16] x86/kvm: Introduce KVM memory protection feature Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 14:58   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-25 15:15     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-27  5:03       ` Sean Christopherson
2020-05-27  8:39         ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-27  8:52           ` Sean Christopherson
2020-06-03  2:09           ` Huang, Kai
2020-06-03 11:14             ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 03/16] x86/kvm: Make DMA pages shared Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 04/16] x86/kvm: Use bounce buffers for KVM memory protection Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 05/16] x86/kvm: Make VirtIO use DMA API in KVM guest Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 06/16] KVM: Use GUP instead of copy_from/to_user() to access guest memory Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 15:08   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-25 15:17     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-06-01 16:35       ` Paolo Bonzini
2020-06-02 13:33         ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-26  6:14   ` Mike Rapoport
2020-05-26 21:56     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-29 15:24   ` Kees Cook
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 07/16] KVM: mm: Introduce VM_KVM_PROTECTED Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-26  6:15   ` Mike Rapoport
2020-05-26 22:01     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-26  6:40   ` John Hubbard
2020-05-26 22:04     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 08/16] KVM: x86: Use GUP for page walk instead of __get_user() Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 09/16] KVM: Protected memory extension Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 15:26   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-25 15:34     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-06-03  1:34       ` Huang, Kai
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 10/16] KVM: x86: Enabled protected " Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 15:26   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-26  6:16   ` Mike Rapoport
2020-05-26 21:58     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 11/16] KVM: Rework copy_to/from_guest() to avoid direct mapping Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 12/16] x86/kvm: Share steal time page with host Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 13/16] x86/kvmclock: Share hvclock memory with the host Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 15:22   ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-25 15:25     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 15:42       ` Vitaly Kuznetsov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 14/16] KVM: Introduce gfn_to_pfn_memslot_protected() Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 15/16] KVM: Handle protected memory in __kvm_map_gfn()/__kvm_unmap_gfn() Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-22 12:52 ` [RFC 16/16] KVM: Unmap protected pages from direct mapping Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-26  6:16   ` Mike Rapoport
2020-05-26 22:10     ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25  5:27 ` [RFC 00/16] KVM protected memory extension Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 13:47 ` Liran Alon
2020-05-25 14:46   ` Kirill A. Shutemov
2020-05-25 15:56     ` Liran Alon
2020-05-26  6:17   ` Mike Rapoport
2020-05-26 10:16     ` Liran Alon
2020-05-26 11:38       ` Mike Rapoport
2020-05-27 15:45         ` Dave Hansen
2020-05-27 21:22           ` Mike Rapoport
2020-06-04 15:15 ` Marc Zyngier
2020-06-04 15:48   ` Sean Christopherson [this message]
2020-06-04 16:27     ` Marc Zyngier
2020-06-04 16:35     ` Will Deacon
2020-06-04 19:09       ` Nakajima, Jun
2020-06-04 21:03         ` Jim Mattson
2020-06-04 23:29           ` Nakajima, Jun

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