From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C21ECDE20 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:43:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3112082C for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:43:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727837AbfIKMm4 (ORCPT ); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:42:56 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:61970 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726928AbfIKMm4 (ORCPT ); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:42:56 -0400 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E3EA10576CB; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:42:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.36.117.155] (ovpn-117-155.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.117.155]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8A62601B6; Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:42:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 0/8] stg mail -e --version=v9 \ To: Michal Hocko , "Michael S. Tsirkin" Cc: Alexander Duyck , Alexander Duyck , virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org, kvm list , Catalin Marinas , Dave Hansen , LKML , Matthew Wilcox , linux-mm , Andrew Morton , will@kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Oscar Salvador , Yang Zhang , Pankaj Gupta , Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , Nitesh Narayan Lal , Rik van Riel , lcapitulino@redhat.com, "Wang, Wei W" , Andrea Arcangeli , ying.huang@intel.com, Paolo Bonzini , Dan Williams , Fengguang Wu , "Kirill A. Shutemov" References: <20190907172225.10910.34302.stgit@localhost.localdomain> <20190910124209.GY2063@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190910144713.GF2063@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190910175213.GD4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <1d7de9f9f4074f67c567dbb4cc1497503d739e30.camel@linux.intel.com> <20190911113619.GP4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190911080804-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20190911121941.GU4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> <20190911122526.GV4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> From: David Hildenbrand Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwX4EEwECACgFAljj9eoCGwMFCQlmAYAGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEE3eEPcA/4Na5IIP/3T/FIQMxIfNzZshIq687qgG 8UbspuE/YSUDdv7r5szYTK6KPTlqN8NAcSfheywbuYD9A4ZeSBWD3/NAVUdrCaRP2IvFyELj xoMvfJccbq45BxzgEspg/bVahNbyuBpLBVjVWwRtFCUEXkyazksSv8pdTMAs9IucChvFmmq3 jJ2vlaz9lYt/lxN246fIVceckPMiUveimngvXZw21VOAhfQ+/sofXF8JCFv2mFcBDoa7eYob s0FLpmqFaeNRHAlzMWgSsP80qx5nWWEvRLdKWi533N2vC/EyunN3HcBwVrXH4hxRBMco3jvM m8VKLKao9wKj82qSivUnkPIwsAGNPdFoPbgghCQiBjBe6A75Z2xHFrzo7t1jg7nQfIyNC7ez MZBJ59sqA9EDMEJPlLNIeJmqslXPjmMFnE7Mby/+335WJYDulsRybN+W5rLT5aMvhC6x6POK z55fMNKrMASCzBJum2Fwjf/VnuGRYkhKCqqZ8gJ3OvmR50tInDV2jZ1DQgc3i550T5JDpToh dPBxZocIhzg+MBSRDXcJmHOx/7nQm3iQ6iLuwmXsRC6f5FbFefk9EjuTKcLMvBsEx+2DEx0E UnmJ4hVg7u1PQ+2Oy+Lh/opK/BDiqlQ8Pz2jiXv5xkECvr/3Sv59hlOCZMOaiLTTjtOIU7Tq 7ut6OL64oAq+zsFNBFXLn5EBEADn1959INH2cwYJv0tsxf5MUCghCj/CA/lc/LMthqQ773ga uB9mN+F1rE9cyyXb6jyOGn+GUjMbnq1o121Vm0+neKHUCBtHyseBfDXHA6m4B3mUTWo13nid 0e4AM71r0DS8+KYh6zvweLX/LL5kQS9GQeT+QNroXcC1NzWbitts6TZ+IrPOwT1hfB4WNC+X 2n4AzDqp3+ILiVST2DT4VBc11Gz6jijpC/KI5Al8ZDhRwG47LUiuQmt3yqrmN63V9wzaPhC+ xbwIsNZlLUvuRnmBPkTJwwrFRZvwu5GPHNndBjVpAfaSTOfppyKBTccu2AXJXWAE1Xjh6GOC 8mlFjZwLxWFqdPHR1n2aPVgoiTLk34LR/bXO+e0GpzFXT7enwyvFFFyAS0Nk1q/7EChPcbRb hJqEBpRNZemxmg55zC3GLvgLKd5A09MOM2BrMea+l0FUR+PuTenh2YmnmLRTro6eZ/qYwWkC u8FFIw4pT0OUDMyLgi+GI1aMpVogTZJ70FgV0pUAlpmrzk/bLbRkF3TwgucpyPtcpmQtTkWS gDS50QG9DR/1As3LLLcNkwJBZzBG6PWbvcOyrwMQUF1nl4SSPV0LLH63+BrrHasfJzxKXzqg rW28CTAE2x8qi7e/6M/+XXhrsMYG+uaViM7n2je3qKe7ofum3s4vq7oFCPsOgwARAQABwsFl BBgBAgAPBQJVy5+RAhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEE3eEPcA/4NagOsP/jPoIBb/iXVbM+fmSHOjEshl KMwEl/m5iLj3iHnHPVLBUWrXPdS7iQijJA/VLxjnFknhaS60hkUNWexDMxVVP/6lbOrs4bDZ NEWDMktAeqJaFtxackPszlcpRVkAs6Msn9tu8hlvB517pyUgvuD7ZS9gGOMmYwFQDyytpepo YApVV00P0u3AaE0Cj/o71STqGJKZxcVhPaZ+LR+UCBZOyKfEyq+ZN311VpOJZ1IvTExf+S/5 lqnciDtbO3I4Wq0ArLX1gs1q1XlXLaVaA3yVqeC8E7kOchDNinD3hJS4OX0e1gdsx/e6COvy qNg5aL5n0Kl4fcVqM0LdIhsubVs4eiNCa5XMSYpXmVi3HAuFyg9dN+x8thSwI836FoMASwOl C7tHsTjnSGufB+D7F7ZBT61BffNBBIm1KdMxcxqLUVXpBQHHlGkbwI+3Ye+nE6HmZH7IwLwV W+Ajl7oYF+jeKaH4DZFtgLYGLtZ1LDwKPjX7VAsa4Yx7S5+EBAaZGxK510MjIx6SGrZWBrrV TEvdV00F2MnQoeXKzD7O4WFbL55hhyGgfWTHwZ457iN9SgYi1JLPqWkZB0JRXIEtjd4JEQcx +8Umfre0Xt4713VxMygW0PnQt5aSQdMD58jHFxTk092mU+yIHj5LeYgvwSgZN4airXk5yRXl SE+xAvmumFBY Organization: Red Hat GmbH Message-ID: <4748a572-57b3-31da-0dde-30138e550c3a@redhat.com> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 14:42:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190911122526.GV4023@dhcp22.suse.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.11 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.64]); Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:42:56 +0000 (UTC) Sender: kvm-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org On 11.09.19 14:25, Michal Hocko wrote: > On Wed 11-09-19 14:19:41, Michal Hocko wrote: >> On Wed 11-09-19 08:08:38, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: >>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 01:36:19PM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote: >>>> On Tue 10-09-19 14:23:40, Alexander Duyck wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>> We don't put any limitations on the allocator other then that it needs to >>>>> clean up the metadata on allocation, and that it cannot allocate a page >>>>> that is in the process of being reported since we pulled it from the >>>>> free_list. If the page is a "Reported" page then it decrements the >>>>> reported_pages count for the free_area and makes sure the page doesn't >>>>> exist in the "Boundary" array pointer value, if it does it moves the >>>>> "Boundary" since it is pulling the page. >>>> >>>> This is still a non-trivial limitation on the page allocation from an >>>> external code IMHO. I cannot give any explicit reason why an ordering on >>>> the free list might matter (well except for page shuffling which uses it >>>> to make physical memory pattern allocation more random) but the >>>> architecture seems hacky and dubious to be honest. It shoulds like the >>>> whole interface has been developed around a very particular and single >>>> purpose optimization. >>>> >>>> I remember that there was an attempt to report free memory that provided >>>> a callback mechanism [1], which was much less intrusive to the internals >>>> of the allocator yet it should provide a similar functionality. Did you >>>> see that approach? How does this compares to it? Or am I completely off >>>> when comparing them? >>>> >>>> [1] mostly likely not the latest version of the patchset >>>> http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1502940416-42944-5-git-send-email-wei.w.wang@intel.com >>> >>> Linus nacked that one. He thinks invoking callbacks with lots of >>> internal mm locks is too fragile. >> >> I would be really curious how much he would be happy about injecting >> other restrictions on the allocator like this patch proposes. This is >> more intrusive as it has a higher maintenance cost longterm IMHO. > > Btw. I do agree that callbacks with internal mm locks are not great > either. We do have a model for that in mmu_notifiers and it is something > I do consider PITA, on the other hand it is mostly sleepable part of the > interface which makes it the real pain. The above callback mechanism was > explicitly documented with restrictions and that the context is > essentially atomic with no access to particular struct pages and no > expensive operations possible. So in the end I've considered it > acceptably painful. Not that I want to override Linus' nack but if > virtualization usecases really require some form of reporting and no > other way to do that push people to invent even more interesting > approaches then we should simply give them/you something reasonable > and least intrusive to our internals. > The issue with "[PATCH v14 4/5] mm: support reporting free page blocks" is that it cannot really handle the use case we have here if I am not wrong. While a page is getting processed by the hypervisor (e.g. MADV_DONTNEED), it must not get reused. "Some page blocks may leave the free list after zone->lock is released, so it is the caller's responsibility to either detect or prevent the use of such pages." If I'm not wrong, this only made sense to speed up migration in the hypervisor, where you can deal with false positives differently. -- Thanks, David / dhildenb