From: Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>
To: "Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)" <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>,
Morten Rasmussen <morten.rasmussen@arm.com>,
Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>
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Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/2] scheduler: expose the topology of clusters and add cluster scheduler
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:53:26 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <a5dfcbf6-84f4-0c72-3a88-62926f1f351d@arm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <f15f8feb4e764c11a078ffd74f002a8d@hisilicon.com>
On 08/01/2021 22:30, Song Bao Hua (Barry Song) wrote:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Morten Rasmussen [mailto:morten.rasmussen@arm.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 4:13 AM
>> To: Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>
>> Cc: Song Bao Hua (Barry Song) <song.bao.hua@hisilicon.com>;
>> valentin.schneider@arm.com; catalin.marinas@arm.com; will@kernel.org;
>> rjw@rjwysocki.net; vincent.guittot@linaro.org; lenb@kernel.org;
>> gregkh@linuxfoundation.org; Jonathan Cameron <jonathan.cameron@huawei.com>;
>> mingo@redhat.com; peterz@infradead.org; juri.lelli@redhat.com;
>> dietmar.eggemann@arm.com; rostedt@goodmis.org; bsegall@google.com;
>> mgorman@suse.de; mark.rutland@arm.com; sudeep.holla@arm.com;
>> aubrey.li@linux.intel.com; linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org;
>> linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org; linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org;
>> linuxarm@openeuler.org; xuwei (O) <xuwei5@huawei.com>; Zengtao (B)
>> <prime.zeng@hisilicon.com>; tiantao (H) <tiantao6@hisilicon.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/2] scheduler: expose the topology of clusters and
>> add cluster scheduler
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 07, 2021 at 03:16:47PM -0800, Tim Chen wrote:
>>> On 1/6/21 12:30 AM, Barry Song wrote:
>>>> ARM64 server chip Kunpeng 920 has 6 clusters in each NUMA node, and each
>>>> cluster has 4 cpus. All clusters share L3 cache data while each cluster
>>>> has local L3 tag. On the other hand, each cluster will share some
>>>> internal system bus. This means cache is much more affine inside one cluster
>>>> than across clusters.
>>>
>>> There is a similar need for clustering in x86. Some x86 cores could share
>> L2 caches that
>>> is similar to the cluster in Kupeng 920 (e.g. on Jacobsville there are 6 clusters
>>> of 4 Atom cores, each cluster sharing a separate L2, and 24 cores sharing
>> L3).
>>> Having a sched domain at the L2 cluster helps spread load among
>>> L2 domains. This will reduce L2 cache contention and help with
>>> performance for low to moderate load scenarios.
>>
>> IIUC, you are arguing for the exact opposite behaviour, i.e. balancing
>> between L2 caches while Barry is after consolidating tasks within the
>> boundaries of a L3 tag cache. One helps cache utilization, the other
>> communication latency between tasks. Am I missing something?
>
> Morten, this is not true.
>
> we are both actually looking for the same behavior. My patch also
> has done the exact same behavior of spreading with Tim's patch.
That's the case for the load-balance path because of the extra Sched
Domain (SD) (CLS/MC_L2) below MC.
But in wakeup you add code which leads to a different packing strategy.
It looks like that Tim's workload (SPECrate mcf) shows a performance
boost solely because of the changes the additional MC_L2 SD introduces
in load balance. The wakeup path is unchanged, i.e. llc-packing. IMHO we
have to carefully distinguish between packing vs. spreading in wakeup
and load-balance here.
> Considering the below two cases:
> Case 1. we have two tasks without any relationship running in a system with 2 clusters and 8 cpus.
>
> Without the sched_domain of cluster, these two tasks might be put as below:
> +-------------------+ +-----------------+
> | +----+ +----+ | | |
> | |task| |task| | | |
> | |1 | |2 | | | |
> | +----+ +----+ | | |
> | | | |
> | cluster1 | | cluster2 |
> +-------------------+ +-----------------+
> With the sched_domain of cluster, load balance will spread them as below:
> +-------------------+ +-----------------+
> | +----+ | | +----+ |
> | |task| | | |task| |
> | |1 | | | |2 | |
> | +----+ | | +----+ |
> | | | |
> | cluster1 | | cluster2 |
> +-------------------+ +-----------------+
>
> Then task1 and tasks2 get more cache and decrease cache contention.
> They will get better performance.
>
> That is what my original patch also can make. And tim's patch
> is also doing. Once we add a sched_domain, load balance will
> get involved.
>
>
> Case 2. we have 8 tasks, running in a system with 2 clusters and 8 cpus.
> But they are working in 4 groups:
> Task1 wakes up task4
> Task2 wakes up task5
> Task3 wakes up task6
> Task4 wakes up task7
>
> With my changing in select_idle_sibling, the WAKE_AFFINE mechanism will
> try to put task1 and 4, task2 and 5, task3 and 6, task4 and 7 in same clusters rather
> than putting all of them in the random one of the 8 cpus. However, the 8 tasks
> are still spreading among the 8 cpus with my change in select_idle_sibling
> as load balance is still working.
>
> +---------------------------+ +----------------------+
> | +----+ +-----+ | | +----+ +-----+ |
> | |task| |task | | | |task| |task | |
> | |1 | | 4 | | | |2 | |5 | |
> | +----+ +-----+ | | +----+ +-----+ |
> | | | |
> | cluster1 | | cluster2 |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> | +-----+ +------+ | | +-----+ +------+ |
> | |task | | task | | | |task | |task | |
> | |3 | | 6 | | | |4 | |8 | |
> | +-----+ +------+ | | +-----+ +------+ |
> +---------------------------+ +----------------------+
Your use-case (#tasks, runtime/period) seems to be perfectly crafted to
show the benefit of your patch on your specific system (cluster-size =
4). IMHO, this extra infrastructure especially in the wakeup path should
show benefits over a range of different benchmarks.
> Let's consider the 3rd case, that one would be more tricky:
>
> task1 and task2 have close relationship and they are waker-wakee pair.
> With my current patch, select_idle_sidling() wants to put them in one
> cluster, load balance wants to put them in two clusters. Load balance will win.
> Then maybe we need some same mechanism like adjusting numa imbalance:
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/kernel/sched/fair.c?id=b396f52326de20
> if we permit a light imbalance between clusters, select_idle_sidling()
> will win. And task1 and task2 get better cache affinity.
This would look weird to allow this kind of imbalance on CLS (MC_L2) and
NUMA domains but not on the MC domain for example.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-12 12:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-01-06 8:30 [RFC PATCH v3 0/2] scheduler: expose the topology of clusters and add cluster scheduler Barry Song
2021-01-06 8:30 ` [RFC PATCH v3 1/2] topology: Represent clusters of CPUs within a die Barry Song
2021-02-09 22:48 ` Masayoshi Mizuma
2021-01-06 8:30 ` [RFC PATCH v3 2/2] scheduler: add scheduler level for clusters Barry Song
2021-01-06 16:29 ` Vincent Guittot
2021-01-06 20:09 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-07 23:16 ` [RFC PATCH v3 0/2] scheduler: expose the topology of clusters and add cluster scheduler Tim Chen
2021-01-08 15:12 ` Morten Rasmussen
2021-01-08 20:22 ` Tim Chen
2021-01-11 9:28 ` Morten Rasmussen
2021-01-12 11:00 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2021-01-25 10:50 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-26 11:02 ` Dietmar Eggemann
2021-04-13 10:45 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-04-13 19:00 ` Tim Chen
2021-01-08 21:30 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-01-12 12:53 ` Dietmar Eggemann [this message]
2021-01-25 11:12 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-02-03 11:32 ` Song Bao Hua (Barry Song)
2021-02-16 18:04 ` Tim Chen
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