From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA17C4363D for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:23:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D76D239EC for ; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:23:18 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.i=@armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b="etE6KMuR"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.i=@armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b="etE6KMuR" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728353AbgIYNXR (ORCPT ); Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:23:17 -0400 Received: from mail-eopbgr20067.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([40.107.2.67]:40550 "EHLO EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728872AbgIYNXR (ORCPT ); Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:23:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=armh.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-armh-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=bTgwsuOPeNHl9PlpQsGNILyeqfgxCldCa9H2JA7efLw=; b=etE6KMuRZ85pnAya+bvtN++C4I8wbVgFkSps6kY0eGT6AWTcZTm3NWm+9pRaAy3BHVhWtnjHe+ixJX09Pyw20CmWbgcofSNf3nhFeXkwpvDPuj+6IXj5F3MMtLkM0vvIt7pNfdknzbGXt6H+Sh087gMYHvZ5tshv/nNOzeuEvVo= Received: from AM6P192CA0071.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:82::48) by AM6PR08MB5542.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:71::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3391.15; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:23:04 +0000 Received: from AM5EUR03FT029.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (2603:10a6:209:82:cafe::99) by AM6P192CA0071.outlook.office365.com (2603:10a6:209:82::48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3412.20 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:23:04 +0000 X-MS-Exchange-Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 63.35.35.123) smtp.mailfrom=arm.com; vger.kernel.org; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com;vger.kernel.org; dmarc=bestguesspass action=none header.from=arm.com; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of arm.com designates 63.35.35.123 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=63.35.35.123; helo=64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com; Received: from 64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com (63.35.35.123) by AM5EUR03FT029.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3412.21 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:23:04 +0000 Received: ("Tessian outbound 7161e0c2a082:v64"); Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:23:04 +0000 X-CheckRecipientChecked: true X-CR-MTA-CID: 6ad9d0d2c59c6b2b X-CR-MTA-TID: 64aa7808 Received: from 297697a109ec.2 by 64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com id 5799906F-3E4B-4A08-91DE-745B69FA69F9.1; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:22:58 +0000 Received: from EUR05-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com by 64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com with ESMTPS id 297697a109ec.2 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384); Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:22:58 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Im2lS9uOMEzAVa8p2XvNQH4GSotodbED99cuoYN+96EKXN7OZExwgpx7sewxqAvc9AfzSME5oUPi2S++E4q/jXuennffXZU56BX4BGxjlGyIu123atYDHhIdRuKNKBDGM1t0DoOIKqfY8JJh3Nnm67AboWldg5EigBCYFiwumEFihuoKhnuESlcl+h8YNw37oaKzQMyfirAv3uBnGC4fzUHqsE98P49fz6fpvB6fT69KtOMHOfY49G/T3IK541kxdVejZ83bTEDqLiJtwRSTLyqQr0GcsOpNzUzsSA2HyKyAlwPddzXkSpKlnj02xiHJtIbdmxtC3cDHpFKMGqzIbw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=bTgwsuOPeNHl9PlpQsGNILyeqfgxCldCa9H2JA7efLw=; b=fU9RAJN+PM2ZzQdH8iKDZeU9Ae3Q6gpdgk8kUvGhu3zYNY7FRQY7kYgaz2qAV4ZDdLFxsqcOn+QImzl/+mlYlHF19CqHGkDuRUE7cn2k4y0yKb7HSCWliNbxTxgI0OADInG25n1UVB1pUVVLLgqQbfEYwGm2uGGlYqVeBCvEhPTGSKpkMxyNBhfqaDR+L3fq6nHoc/fyMf2Yxgay4bXwlpT7GY+bU66pWGtxNlPVnShF9pMFSa36myFHfoR9ggNg8HQenEjLneFOWPSOXlioa2xwhUa24G6Eyimmo2RiFrZiFOocWdZra+eL9b3Nag9Qa/4C91NTzaUVJbVH+X+1mQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=arm.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=arm.com; dkim=pass header.d=arm.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=armh.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-armh-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=bTgwsuOPeNHl9PlpQsGNILyeqfgxCldCa9H2JA7efLw=; b=etE6KMuRZ85pnAya+bvtN++C4I8wbVgFkSps6kY0eGT6AWTcZTm3NWm+9pRaAy3BHVhWtnjHe+ixJX09Pyw20CmWbgcofSNf3nhFeXkwpvDPuj+6IXj5F3MMtLkM0vvIt7pNfdknzbGXt6H+Sh087gMYHvZ5tshv/nNOzeuEvVo= Authentication-Results-Original: arm.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;arm.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; Received: from AM6PR08MB4007.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:a1::29) by AM6PR08MB4007.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:a1::29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3412.22; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:22:56 +0000 Received: from AM6PR08MB4007.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9904:4b6c:dfa2:e49f]) by AM6PR08MB4007.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9904:4b6c:dfa2:e49f%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3412.022; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:22:56 +0000 Subject: Re: [net-next PATCH v7 1/6] Documentation: ACPI: DSD: Document MDIO PHY To: Andrew Lunn , Andy Shevchenko Cc: Florian Fainelli , Dan Callaghan , Jeremy Linton , Calvin Johnson , Russell King , Jon , Cristi Sovaiala , Ioana Ciornei , Madalin Bucur , netdev , "linux.cj" , linux-acpi , nd , Rob Herring References: <20200715090400.4733-1-calvin.johnson@oss.nxp.com> <20200715090400.4733-2-calvin.johnson@oss.nxp.com> <1a031e62-1e87-fdc1-b672-e3ccf3530fda@arm.com> <20200724133931.GF1472201@lunn.ch> <97973095-5458-8ac2-890c-667f4ea6cd0e@arm.com> <20200724191436.GH1594328@lunn.ch> <1595922651-sup-5323@galangal.danc.bne.opengear.com> <20200728204548.GC1748118@lunn.ch> <7d42152a-2df1-a26c-b619-b804001e0eac@gmail.com> <20200731151444.GI1712415@lunn.ch> From: Grant Likely Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:22:52 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0 In-Reply-To: <20200731151444.GI1712415@lunn.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P265CA0470.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a2::26) To AM6PR08MB4007.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:a1::29) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.16.147] (188.28.154.24) by LO2P265CA0470.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a2::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3412.20 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:22:54 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [188.28.154.24] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2be5fe35-b9ce-41a8-abd1-08d86156229a X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM6PR08MB4007:|AM6PR08MB5542: X-LD-Processed: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d,ExtAddr X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: x-checkrecipientrouted: true NoDisclaimer: true X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:5516;OLM:5516; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Untrusted: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info-Original: oFmG6i07X85UrIomn0zfjsuqvTokMjXE3j4+3IXqYsqRP/Z98jadktfORwYmuqfQ50t3gv+m2hBx4JlLsxNnWK+rxwo8t9fYxMVic89cZmaX0MvWBgcxMAg4nsqJg1p8UMN5WlJiTBWnXFmjUikBTw6vVp46K8tgr295RpRi9aoaJ7oFWPMygYJpkdv7Fk0de3OOSgpVvmirLgnCdS4/9MXRWbBf9jm9MEiJ8KQ3btd6h+MHXGxPdC354mZI/BrefZQMcNT7i7cNYiCPCiywytXtpE/pkcCknHbhMbb0k5EYJsWY6EWWsE+gvQnG4Ng/p8KHUQ+mQ59qY9HazXXr3tcB09cwz+l9T0WF0oNe6PlPIJOgA41Qy8aV10TSlKG3SKzrkqo8fQ87GSf8GljIoFu8GHaAyse87EO+eXunCS4= X-Forefront-Antispam-Report-Untrusted: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:AM6PR08MB4007.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(4636009)(366004)(136003)(396003)(346002)(376002)(39860400002)(86362001)(66946007)(5660300002)(44832011)(16576012)(54906003)(478600001)(7416002)(31696002)(316002)(110136005)(31686004)(8936002)(66556008)(2616005)(26005)(55236004)(186003)(6486002)(53546011)(52116002)(66476007)(956004)(4326008)(2906002)(8676002)(36756003)(16526019)(43740500002);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 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 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR08MB4007 Original-Authentication-Results: arm.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;arm.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStripped: AM5EUR03FT029.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id-Prvs: de4484b8-5495-4bab-d72e-08d861561d5e X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: KevtEz8ARb1rz2ejSFS9V7KYW4hzotLFAFCGm5HcPoEFHEmtMSmsyyIKJ0o9tdjpP7UjW0Zvr0o3vSKtB5cYC/67Wvqg9DIFXKM11YkPl5JYrbBmAr0Anr0cqUELFSUsQVnUIFySCE9iz1+9VwHXZmqzVtIV/kOqBJExt3jj8f4lQTHwTIoB/EHCMcEQNl+yonoOUR5C2d5oj6T3bVjYEbjTQA8W32f+fXbCB1gWgUie8UIXywAe1Vras78ELI+fHKgD7hLiWjWaaQEMzgvdvQpHZZXYCCtdsFcWqqjMfuiM/9+JS9TRTdrBdJ8ioxVvZ3ppwKcZ3KHBwgEaPXUSStgiEYb43LAXlph26G8PQwEYkKBn7jXuqeiniD1BPJ5ndz2kzQWtKf/VBMutwr5eAfooy+AScpT5ekx/Fq0fGtXZLVqxayiV5xWHoTGL7Th2jdWtoSmnFU70/GLx7Lnxm/VHXAhvmXqip5LndpzCXXQ= X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:63.35.35.123;CTRY:IE;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:CAL;SFV:NSPM;H:64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com;PTR:ec2-63-35-35-123.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com;CAT:NONE;SFS:(4636009)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(136003)(346002)(46966005)(54906003)(16576012)(70206006)(8936002)(316002)(5660300002)(82310400003)(81166007)(36906005)(86362001)(356005)(478600001)(8676002)(2906002)(31696002)(70586007)(26005)(336012)(450100002)(2616005)(31686004)(186003)(53546011)(16526019)(36756003)(82740400003)(44832011)(110136005)(47076004)(6486002)(956004)(4326008)(55236004)(43740500002);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101; X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2020 13:23:04.7739 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2be5fe35-b9ce-41a8-abd1-08d86156229a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d;Ip=[63.35.35.123];Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM5EUR03FT029.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR08MB5542 Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org On 31/07/2020 16:14, Andrew Lunn wrote: >>>> DT can be used on x86, and i suspect it is a much easier path of least >>>> resistance. >>> >>> And you can easily overlay Device Tree to an existing system by using >>> either a full Device Tree overlay (dtbo) or using CONFIG_OF_DYNAMIC and >>> creating nodes on the fly. >> >> Why do you need DT on a system that runs without it and Linux has all >> means to extend to cover a lot of stuff DT provides for other types of >> firmware nodes? > > As i said, path of least resistance. It is here today, heavily used, > well understood by lots of network developers, has a very active > maintainer in the form of Rob Herring, and avoids 'showflakes' as > Florian likes to call it, so we are all sharing the same code, > providing a lot of testing and maintenance. > > Andrew Hi Andrew, I'm just coming into this thread now. With my alumni DT-maintainer had on I think that trying to use ACPI & DT on the same system is the worst of both worlds. Trying to do so makes the solution far more complicated than either an ACPI-only or DT-only approach. There is no good way for references between DT & ACPI nodes. I have serious doubts about the reliability of the dynamic DT code in the kernel. Perhaps most problematic is it excludes platform specific data from the ACPI description provided by firmware, which means platform-specific data needs to be shipped with the OS. Rather defeats the whole point of firmware providing the platform description. An ACPI solution is absolutely needed. Regarding this specific series, I think it is approximately the right approach. I have some specific concerns that I've talked with Calvin about and I'm going to post as replies to the individual patches. My most significant concern is the reference from the ACPI MAC node to the MDIO node, which makes little sense. The MAC should have a reference to the PHY node. There have been other issues raised in this thread. I'm going to go back and respond to a few of those points in separate emails, but as a larger issue I think there is a fair bit of misunderstanding on what ACPI does and does not do, and how much is expected to be standardized in ACPI specs. In the ACPI world the typical model is the firmware/platform vendor decides what data to put into the ACPI nodes that works for them, and then the OS just has to deal with it. Linux typically never gets a choice about what goes into ACPI nodes. Already, threads like this one are setting the bar *far* higher on ACPI schema than has ever been done before. I do think it is right to be asking for a common data model for describing PHY connections. Lining the model up with the DT PHY model is also valuable because we can use common code. I also think as first through the door, what gets accepted (after review) for the layerscape platforms here should become the defacto standard that other vendors are expected to adopt, and I have very high confidence that it will be acceptable because it follow the pattern already used in devicetree. Cheers, g.