From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC 5/7] mm: introduce external memory hinting API
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 19:32:23 +0900
Message-ID: <20190521103223.GD219653@google.com>
References: <20190520035254.57579-1-minchan@kernel.org>
 <20190520035254.57579-6-minchan@kernel.org>
 <20190520091829.GY6836@dhcp22.suse.cz>
 <20190521024107.GF10039@google.com>
 <20190521061743.GC32329@dhcp22.suse.cz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-path: <linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org>
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20190521061743.GC32329@dhcp22.suse.cz>
Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org
To: Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, Tim Murray <timmurray@google.com>, Joel Fernandes <joel@joelfernandes.org>, Suren Baghdasaryan <surenb@google.com>, Daniel Colascione <dancol@google.com>, Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@google.com>, Sonny Rao <sonnyrao@google.com>, Brian Geffon <bgeffon@google.com>, linux-api@vger.kernel.org
List-Id: linux-api@vger.kernel.org

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 08:17:43AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> On Tue 21-05-19 11:41:07, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:18:29AM +0200, Michal Hocko wrote:
> > > [Cc linux-api]
> > > 
> > > On Mon 20-05-19 12:52:52, Minchan Kim wrote:
> > > > There is some usecase that centralized userspace daemon want to give
> > > > a memory hint like MADV_[COOL|COLD] to other process. Android's
> > > > ActivityManagerService is one of them.
> > > > 
> > > > It's similar in spirit to madvise(MADV_WONTNEED), but the information
> > > > required to make the reclaim decision is not known to the app. Instead,
> > > > it is known to the centralized userspace daemon(ActivityManagerService),
> > > > and that daemon must be able to initiate reclaim on its own without
> > > > any app involvement.
> > > 
> > > Could you expand some more about how this all works? How does the
> > > centralized daemon track respective ranges? How does it synchronize
> > > against parallel modification of the address space etc.
> > 
> > Currently, we don't track each address ranges because we have two
> > policies at this moment:
> > 
> > 	deactive file pages and reclaim anonymous pages of the app.
> > 
> > Since the daemon has a ability to let background apps resume(IOW, process
> > will be run by the daemon) and both hints are non-disruptive stabilty point
> > of view, we are okay for the race.
> 
> Fair enough but the API should consider future usecases where this might
> be a problem. So we should really think about those potential scenarios
> now. If we are ok with that, fine, but then we should be explicit and
> document it that way. Essentially say that any sort of synchronization
> is supposed to be done by monitor. This will make the API less usable
> but maybe that is enough.

Okay, I will add more about that in the description.

>  
> > > > To solve the issue, this patch introduces new syscall process_madvise(2)
> > > > which works based on pidfd so it could give a hint to the exeternal
> > > > process.
> > > > 
> > > > int process_madvise(int pidfd, void *addr, size_t length, int advise);
> > > 
> > > OK, this makes some sense from the API point of view. When we have
> > > discussed that at LSFMM I was contemplating about something like that
> > > except the fd would be a VMA fd rather than the process. We could extend
> > > and reuse /proc/<pid>/map_files interface which doesn't support the
> > > anonymous memory right now. 
> > > 
> > > I am not saying this would be a better interface but I wanted to mention
> > > it here for a further discussion. One slight advantage would be that
> > > you know the exact object that you are operating on because you have a
> > > fd for the VMA and we would have a more straightforward way to reject
> > > operation if the underlying object has changed (e.g. unmapped and reused
> > > for a different mapping).
> > 
> > I agree your point. If I didn't miss something, such kinds of vma level
> > modify notification doesn't work even file mapped vma at this moment.
> > For anonymous vma, I think we could use userfaultfd, pontentially.
> > It would be great if someone want to do with disruptive hints like
> > MADV_DONTNEED.
> > 
> > I'd like to see it further enhancement after landing address range based
> > operation via limiting hints process_madvise supports to non-disruptive
> > only(e.g., MADV_[COOL|COLD]) so that we could catch up the usercase/workload
> > when someone want to extend the API.
> 
> So do you think we want both interfaces (process_madvise and madvisefd)?

What I have in mind is to extend process_madvise later like this

struct pr_madvise_param {
    int size;                       /* the size of this structure */
    union {
    	const struct iovec __user *vec; /* address range array */
	int fd;				/* supported from 6.0 */
    }
}

with introducing new hint Or-able PR_MADV_RANGE_FD, so that process_madvise
can go with fd instead of address range.