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From: Kanchan Joshi <joshiiitr@gmail.com>
To: Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com>
Cc: "hch@infradead.org" <hch@infradead.org>,
	Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	Pavel Begunkov <asml.silence@gmail.com>,
	Kanchan Joshi <joshi.k@samsung.com>,
	"viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk" <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	"bcrl@kvack.org" <bcrl@kvack.org>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	"linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-aio@kvack.org" <linux-aio@kvack.org>,
	"io-uring@vger.kernel.org" <io-uring@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-block@vger.kernel.org" <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-api@vger.kernel.org" <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	SelvaKumar S <selvakuma.s1@samsung.com>,
	Nitesh Shetty <nj.shetty@samsung.com>,
	Javier Gonzalez <javier.gonz@samsung.com>,
	Johannes Thumshirn <Johannes.Thumshirn@wdc.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 6/6] io_uring: add support for zone-append
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 15:08:34 +0530
Message-ID: <CA+1E3rJasyUAcDZZFPjFSckUuLKu7rMkn0bmLJWdywxTC0u-7w@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR04MB375863C20C1EF2CB27E62703E74E0@MWHPR04MB3758.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 1:44 PM Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com> wrote:
>
> On 2020/07/31 16:59, Kanchan Joshi wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:29 PM Damien Le Moal <Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2020/07/31 15:45, hch@infradead.org wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 06:42:10AM +0000, Damien Le Moal wrote:
> >>>>> - We may not be able to use RWF_APPEND, and need exposing a new
> >>>>> type/flag (RWF_INDIRECT_OFFSET etc.) user-space. Not sure if this
> >>>>> sounds outrageous, but is it OK to have uring-only flag which can be
> >>>>> combined with RWF_APPEND?
> >>>>
> >>>> Why ? Where is the problem ? O_APPEND/RWF_APPEND is currently meaningless for
> >>>> raw block device accesses. We could certainly define a meaning for these in the
> >>>> context of zoned block devices.
> >>>
> >>> We can't just add a meaning for O_APPEND on block devices now,
> >>> as it was previously silently ignored.  I also really don't think any
> >>> of these semantics even fit the block device to start with.  If you
> >>> want to work on raw zones use zonefs, that's what is exists for.
> >>
> >> Which is fine with me. Just trying to say that I think this is exactly the
> >> discussion we need to start with. What interface do we implement...
> >>
> >> Allowing zone append only through zonefs as the raw block device equivalent, all
> >> the O_APPEND/RWF_APPEND semantic is defined and the "return written offset"
> >> implementation in VFS would be common for all file systems, including regular
> >> ones. Beside that, there is I think the question of short writes... Not sure if
> >> short writes can currently happen with async RWF_APPEND writes to regular files.
> >> I think not but that may depend on the FS.
> >
> > generic_write_check_limits (called by generic_write_checks, used by
> > most FS) may make it short, and AFAIK it does not depend on
> > async/sync.
>
> Johannes has a patch (not posted yet) fixing all this for zonefs,
> differentiating sync and async cases, allow short writes or not, etc. This was
> done by not using generic_write_check_limits() and instead writing a
> zonefs_check_write() function that is zone append friendly.
>
> We can post that as a base for the discussion on semantic if you want...

There is no problem in about how-to-do-it. That part is simple - we
have the iocb, and sync/async can be known whether ki_complete
callback is set.
This point to be discussed was whether-to-allow-short-write-or-not if
we are talking about a generic file-append-returning-location.

That said, since we are talking about moving to indirect-offset in
io-uring, short-write is not an issue anymore I suppose (it goes back
to how it was).
But the unsettled thing is -  whether we can use O/RWF_APPEND with
indirect-offset (pointer) scheme.

> > This was one of the reason why we chose to isolate the operation by a
> > different IOCB flag and not by IOCB_APPEND alone.
>
> For zonefs, the plan is:
> * For the sync write case, zone append is always used.
> * For the async write case, if we see IOCB_APPEND, then zone append BIOs are
> used. If not, regular write BIOs are used.
>
> Simple enough I think. No need for a new flag.

Maybe simple if we only think of ZoneFS (how user-space sends
async-append and gets result is a common problem).
Add Block I/O in scope -  it gets slightly more complicated because it
has to cater to non-zoned devices. And there already is a
well-established understanding that append does nothing...so  code
like "if (flags & IOCB_APPEND) { do something; }" in block I/O path
may surprise someone resuming after a hiatus.
Add File I/O in scope - It gets further complicated. I think it would
make sense to make it opt-in rather than compulsory, but most of them
already implement a behavior for IOCB_APPEND. How to make it opt-in
without new flags.

New flags (FMODE_SOME_NAME, IOCB_SOME_NAME) serve that purpose.
Please assess the need (for isolation) considering all three cases.

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <CGME20200724155244epcas5p2902f57e36e490ee8772da19aa9408cdc@epcas5p2.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49 ` [PATCH v4 0/6] zone-append support in io-uring and aio Kanchan Joshi
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200724155258epcas5p1a75b926950a18cd1e6c8e7a047e6c589@epcas5p1.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49     ` [PATCH v4 1/6] fs: introduce FMODE_ZONE_APPEND and IOCB_ZONE_APPEND Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-24 16:34       ` Jens Axboe
2020-07-26 15:18       ` Christoph Hellwig
2020-07-28  1:49         ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-07-28  7:26           ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200724155324epcas5p18e1d3b4402d1e4a8eca87d0b56a3fa9b@epcas5p1.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49     ` [PATCH v4 2/6] fs: change ki_complete interface to support 64bit ret2 Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-26 15:18       ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200724155329epcas5p345ba6bad0b8fe18056bb4bcd26c10019@epcas5p3.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49     ` [PATCH v4 3/6] uio: return status with iov truncation Kanchan Joshi
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200724155341epcas5p15bfc55927f2abb60f19784270fe8e377@epcas5p1.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49     ` [PATCH v4 4/6] block: add zone append handling for direct I/O path Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-26 15:19       ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200724155346epcas5p2cfb383fe9904a45280c6145f4c13e1b4@epcas5p2.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49     ` [PATCH v4 5/6] block: enable zone-append for iov_iter of bvec type Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-26 15:20       ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]   ` <CGME20200724155350epcas5p3b8f1d59eda7f8fbb38c828f692d42fd6@epcas5p3.samsung.com>
2020-07-24 15:49     ` [PATCH v4 6/6] io_uring: add support for zone-append Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-24 16:29       ` Jens Axboe
2020-07-27 19:16         ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-27 20:34           ` Jens Axboe
2020-07-30 16:08             ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-30 16:13               ` Jens Axboe
2020-07-30 16:26                 ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-30 17:16                   ` Jens Axboe
2020-07-30 17:38                     ` Pavel Begunkov
2020-07-30 17:51                       ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-30 17:54                         ` Jens Axboe
2020-07-30 18:25                           ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-31  6:42                             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-07-31  6:45                               ` hch
2020-07-31  6:59                                 ` Damien Le Moal
2020-07-31  7:58                                   ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-31  8:14                                     ` Damien Le Moal
2020-07-31  9:14                                       ` hch
2020-07-31  9:34                                         ` Damien Le Moal
2020-07-31  9:41                                           ` hch
2020-07-31 10:16                                             ` Damien Le Moal
2020-07-31 12:51                                               ` hch
2020-07-31 13:08                                                 ` hch
2020-07-31 15:07                                                   ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-08-05  7:35                                                 ` Damien Le Moal
2020-07-31  9:38                                       ` Kanchan Joshi [this message]
2020-07-31  7:08                               ` Kanchan Joshi
2020-07-30 15:57       ` Pavel Begunkov

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