Re: KVM/arm64: Guest ABI changes do not appear rollback-safe

[Andrew Jones <drjones@redhat.com>]

On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 06:49:27PM +0000, Oliver Upton wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 09:37:42AM +0100, Marc Zyngier wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 19:14:59 +0100,
> > Oliver Upton <oupton@google.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 8:07 AM Andrew Jones <drjones@redhat.com> wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > > Thanks for including me Marc. I think you've mentioned all the examples
> > > > of why we don't generally expect N+1 -> N migrations to work that I
> > > > can think of. While some of the examples like get-reg-list could
> > > > eventually be eliminated if we had CPU models to tighten our machine type
> > > > state, I think N+1 -> N migrations will always be best effort at most.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with giving userspace control over the exposer of the hypercalls
> > > > though. Using pseudo-registers for that purpose rather than a pile of
> > > > CAPs also seems reasonable to me.
> > > >
> > > > And, while I don't think this patch is going to proceed, I thought I'd
> > > > point out that the opt-out approach doesn't help much with expanding
> > > > our migration support unless we require the VMM to be upgraded first.
> > > >
> > > > And, even then, the (N_kern, N+1_vmm) -> (N+1_kern, N_vmm) case won't
> > > > work as expected, since the source enforce opt-out, but the destination
> > > > won't.
> > > 
> > > Right, there's going to need to be a fence in both kernel and VMM
> > > versions. Before the fence, you can't rollback with either component.
> > > Once on the other side of the fence, the user may freely migrate
> > > between kernel + VMM combinations.
> > >
> > > > Also, since the VMM doesn't key off the kernel version, for the
> > > > most part N+1 VMMs won't know when they're supposed to opt-out or not,
> > > > leaving it to the user to ensure they consider everything. opt-in
> > > > usually only needs the user to consider what machine type they want to
> > > > launch.
> > > 
> > > Going the register route will implicitly require opt-out for all old
> > > hypercalls. We exposed them unconditionally to the guest before, and
> > > we must uphold that behavior. The default value for the bitmap will
> > > have those features set. Any hypercalls added after that register
> > > interface will then require explicit opt-in from userspace.
> > 
> > I disagree here. This makes the ABI inconsistent, and means that no
> > feature can be implemented without changing userspace. If you can deal
> > with the existing features, you should be able to deal with the next
> > lot.
> >
> > > With regards to the pseudoregister interface, how would a VMM discover
> > > new bits? From my perspective, you need to have two bitmaps that the
> > > VMM can get at: the set of supported feature bits and the active
> > > bitmap of features for a running guest.
> > 
> > My proposal is that we have a single pseudo-register exposing the list
> > of implemented by the kernel. Clear the bits you don't want, and write
> > back the result. As long as you haven't written anything, you have the
> > full feature set. That's pretty similar to the virtio feature
> > negotiation.
> 
> Ah, yes I agree. Thinking about it more we will not need something
> similar to KVM_GET_SUPPORTED_CPUID.
> 
> So then, for any register where userspace/KVM need to negotiate
> features, the default value will return the maximum feature set that is
> supported. If userspace wants to constrain features, read out the
> register, make sure everything you want is there, and write it back
> blowing away the superfluous bits. Given this should we enforce ordering
> on feature registers, such that a VMM can only write to the registers
> before a VM is started?

That's a good idea. KVM_REG_ARM64_SVE_VLS has this type of constraint so
we can model the feature register control off that.

> 
> Also, Reiji is working on making the identity registers writable for the
> sake of feature restriction. The suggested negotiation interface would
> be applicable there too, IMO.

This this interesting news. I'll look forward to the posting.

> 
> Many thanks to both you and Drew for working this out with me.
>

Thanks,
drew 


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