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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: Marc Gonzalez <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr>
Cc: Pascal Van Leeuwen <pvanleeuwen@verimatrix.com>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux ARM <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>
Subject: Re: France didn't want GSM encryption
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 14:37:44 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHk-=wj=377rsWmvrK_MvL6yamTisj5SWFQZsQH+rjeic8_suA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3e5347a2-9aa7-bffb-2343-42eda87a6c83@free.fr>

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 4:14 AM Marc Gonzalez <marc.w.gonzalez@free.fr> wrote:
>
> Two statements above have raised at least one of my eyebrows.
>
> 1) France has laws that require backdoors.

No. But France has a long history on being bad on encryption policies.
They've gotten better, thankfully.

France was one of the countries that had laws against strong
encryption back in the 90s. It got better in the early 2000s, but
there's a long history - and still a push - for some very questionable
practices.

It was just a couple of years ago that the had discussions about
mandatory backdoors for encryption in France. Look it up.

Are there other countries that have worse track records? Yes. And in
the west, the US (and Australia) have had similar issues.

But when it comes to Western Europe, France has been a particular
problem spot. And I wanted to point out that it's not always the
obvious problem countries (ie Middle East, China) that everybody
points to.

> 2) France did not want GSM encryption.

I'm pretty sure that France had the encryption bit off at least during the 90's.

GSM A5/1 isn't great, but as part of the spec there is also A5/0. No,
it's not used in the West any more.

France was also at least at one time considered a hotbed of industrial
espionage by other European countries. And the US.

You can try to google for it, but you won't find all that much from
the bad old days. You can find _some_ stuff still..

  https://apnews.com/4206823c63d58fd956f26fd5efc9a777

but basically French intelligence agencies have been accused of
extensive industrial espionage for French companies over the years.

Anyway, I'm not trying to point to France as some kind of "worst of
the worst". I literally picked it as an example because people
generally _don't_ think of Western European countries as having
encryption issues, and don't generally associate them with industrial
espionage. But there really is a history even there.

            Linus

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  reply	other threads:[~2019-09-30 21:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-25 16:12 [RFC PATCH 00/18] crypto: wireguard using the existing crypto API Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 01/18] crypto: shash - add plumbing for operating on scatterlists Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 02/18] crypto: x86/poly1305 - implement .update_from_sg method Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 03/18] crypto: arm/poly1305 - incorporate OpenSSL/CRYPTOGAMS NEON implementation Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 04/18] crypto: arm64/poly1305 " Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 05/18] crypto: chacha - move existing library code into lib/crypto Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 06/18] crypto: rfc7539 - switch to shash for Poly1305 Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 07/18] crypto: rfc7539 - use zero reqsize for sync instantiations without alignmask Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 08/18] crypto: testmgr - add a chacha20poly1305 test case Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 09/18] crypto: poly1305 - move core algorithm into lib/crypto Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 10/18] crypto: poly1305 - add init/update/final library routines Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 11/18] int128: move __uint128_t compiler test to Kconfig Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 21:01   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-25 21:19     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 16/18] netlink: use new strict length types in policy for 5.2 Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 17/18] wg switch to lib/crypto algos Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 16:12 ` [RFC PATCH 18/18] net: wireguard - switch to crypto API for packet encryption Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-25 22:15   ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-25 22:22     ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-26  9:40     ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 16:35       ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-27  0:15         ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-27  1:30           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-27  2:54             ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-27  3:53               ` Herbert Xu
2019-09-27  4:37                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-27  4:59                   ` Herbert Xu
2019-09-27  4:01               ` Herbert Xu
2019-09-27  4:13                 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-27 10:44               ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-27 11:08                 ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-27  4:36             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-27  9:58             ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-27 10:11               ` Herbert Xu
2019-09-27 16:23               ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-30 11:14                 ` France didn't want GSM encryption Marc Gonzalez
2019-09-30 21:37                   ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2019-09-30 20:44                 ` [RFC PATCH 18/18] net: wireguard - switch to crypto API for packet encryption Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-27  2:06           ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-27 10:11             ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 11:06     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-26 12:34       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-26  8:59 ` [RFC PATCH 00/18] crypto: wireguard using the existing crypto API Jason A. Donenfeld
2019-09-26 10:19   ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 10:59     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2019-09-26 11:06     ` chapoly acceleration hardware [Was: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/18] crypto: wireguard using the existing crypto API] Jason A. Donenfeld
2019-09-26 11:38       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-09-26 13:52       ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 23:13         ` Dave Taht
2019-09-27 12:18           ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 22:47       ` Jakub Kicinski
2019-09-26 12:07   ` [RFC PATCH 00/18] crypto: wireguard using the existing crypto API Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-26 13:06     ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 13:15       ` Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-26 14:03         ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 14:52           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2019-09-26 15:04             ` Pascal Van Leeuwen
2019-09-26 20:47     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2019-09-26 21:36       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-27  7:20         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2019-10-01  8:56           ` Ard Biesheuvel

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