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From: Ferry Toth <>
To: Andy Shevchenko <>,
	Heikki Krogerus <>
Cc: Felipe Balbi <>,
	Andy Shevchenko <>,
	Wesley Cheng <>,
	Greg KH <>,
	Andy Gross <>,
	Bjorn Andersson <>,
	Rob Herring <>, USB <>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <>,,
	devicetree <>,
	Jack Pham <>,
	Thinh Nguyen <>,
	John Youn <>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 0/5] Re-introduce TX FIFO resize for larger EP bursting
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 23:27:24 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <>


Op 11-06-2021 om 15:21 schreef Andy Shevchenko:
> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:14 PM Heikki Krogerus
> <> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 04:00:38PM +0300, Felipe Balbi wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Wesley Cheng <> writes:
>>>>>>>>>> to be honest, I don't think these should go in (apart from the build
>>>>>>>>>> failure) because it's likely to break instantiations of the core with
>>>>>>>>>> differing FIFO sizes. Some instantiations even have some endpoints with
>>>>>>>>>> dedicated functionality that requires the default FIFO size configured
>>>>>>>>>> during coreConsultant instantiation. I know of at OMAP5 and some Intel
>>>>>>>>>> implementations which have dedicated endpoints for processor tracing.
>>>>>>>>>> With OMAP5, these endpoints are configured at the top of the available
>>>>>>>>>> endpoints, which means that if a gadget driver gets loaded and takes
>>>>>>>>>> over most of the FIFO space because of this resizing, processor tracing
>>>>>>>>>> will have a hard time running. That being said, processor tracing isn't
>>>>>>>>>> supported in upstream at this moment.
>>>>>>>> I agree that the application of this logic may differ between vendors,
>>>>>>>> hence why I wanted to keep this controllable by the DT property, so that
>>>>>>>> for those which do not support this use case can leave it disabled.  The
>>>>>>>> logic is there to ensure that for a given USB configuration, for each EP
>>>>>>>> it would have at least 1 TX FIFO.  For USB configurations which don't
>>>>>>>> utilize all available IN EPs, it would allow re-allocation of internal
>>>>>>>> memory to EPs which will actually be in use.
>>>>>>> The feature ends up being all-or-nothing, then :-) It sounds like we can
>>>>>>> be a little nicer in this regard.
>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I think once those features become available
>>>>>> upstream, we can improve the logic.  From what I remember when looking
>>>>> sure, I support that. But I want to make sure the first cut isn't likely
>>>>> to break things left and right :)
>>>>> Hence, let's at least get more testing.
>>>> Sure, I'd hope that the other users of DWC3 will also see some pretty
>>>> big improvements on the TX path with this.
>>> fingers crossed
>>>>>> at Andy Shevchenko's Github, the Intel tracer downstream changes were
>>>>>> just to remove physical EP1 and 2 from the DWC3 endpoint list.  If that
>>>>> right, that's the reason why we introduced the endpoint feature
>>>>> flags. The end goal was that the UDC would be able to have custom
>>>>> feature flags paired with ->validate_endpoint() or whatever before
>>>>> allowing it to be enabled. Then the UDC driver could tell UDC core to
>>>>> skip that endpoint on that particular platform without interefering with
>>>>> everything else.
>>>>> Of course, we still need to figure out a way to abstract the different
>>>>> dwc3 instantiations.
>>>>>> was the change which ended up upstream for the Intel tracer then we
>>>>>> could improve the logic to avoid re-sizing those particular EPs.
>>>>> The problem then, just as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, will be
>>>>> coming up with a solution that's elegant and works for all different
>>>>> instantiations of dwc3 (or musb, cdns3, etc).
>>>> Well, at least for the TX FIFO resizing logic, we'd only be needing to
>>>> focus on the DWC3 implementation.
>>>> You bring up another good topic that I'll eventually needing to be
>>>> taking a look at, which is a nice way we can handle vendor specific
>>>> endpoints and how they can co-exist with other "normal" endpoints.  We
>>>> have a few special HW eps as well, which we try to maintain separately
>>>> in our DWC3 vendor driver, but it isn't the most convenient, or most
>>>> pretty method :).
>>> Awesome, as mentioned, the endpoint feature flags were added exactly to
>>> allow for these vendor-specific features :-)
>>> I'm more than happy to help testing now that I finally got our SM8150
>>> Surface Duo device tree accepted by Bjorn ;-)
>>>>>> However, I'm not sure how the changes would look like in the end, so I
>>>>>> would like to wait later down the line to include that :).
>>>>> Fair enough, I agree. Can we get some more testing of $subject, though?
>>>>> Did you test $subject with upstream too? Which gadget drivers did you
>>>>> use? How did you test
>>>> The results that I included in the cover page was tested with the pure
>>>> upstream kernel on our device.  Below was using the ConfigFS gadget w/ a
>>>> mass storage only composition.
>>>> Test Parameters:
>>>>   - Platform: Qualcomm SM8150
>>>>   - bMaxBurst = 6
>>>>   - USB req size = 256kB
>>>>   - Num of USB reqs = 16
>>> do you mind testing with the regular request size (16KiB) and 250
>>> requests? I think we can even do 15 bursts in that case.
>>>>   - USB Speed = Super-Speed
>>>>   - Function Driver: Mass Storage (w/ ramdisk)
>>>>   - Test Application: CrystalDiskMark
>>>> Results:
>>>> TXFIFO Depth = 3 max packets
>>>> Test Case | Data Size | AVG tput (in MB/s)
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> Sequential|1 GB x     |
>>>> Read      |9 loops    | 193.60
>>>>            |           | 195.86
>>>>            |           | 184.77
>>>>            |           | 193.60
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> TXFIFO Depth = 6 max packets
>>>> Test Case | Data Size | AVG tput (in MB/s)
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> Sequential|1 GB x     |
>>>> Read      |9 loops    | 287.35
>>>>          |           | 304.94
>>>>            |           | 289.64
>>>>            |           | 293.61
>>> I remember getting close to 400MiB/sec with Intel platforms without
>>> resizing FIFOs and I'm sure the FIFO size was set to 2x1024, though my
>>> memory could be failing.
>>> Then again, I never ran with CrystalDiskMark, I was using my own tool
>>> (it's somewhere in github. If you care, I can look up the URL).
>>>> We also have internal numbers which have shown similar improvements as
>>>> well.  Those are over networking/tethering interfaces, so testing IPERF
>>>> loopback over TCP/UDP.
>>> loopback iperf? That would skip the wire, no?
>>>>>> size of 2 and TX threshold of 1, this would really be not beneficial to
>>>>>> us, because we can only change the TX threshold to 2 at max, and at
>>>>>> least in my observations, once we have to go out to system memory to
>>>>>> fetch the next data packet, that latency takes enough time for the
>>>>>> controller to end the current burst.
>>>>> What I noticed with g_mass_storage is that we can amortize the cost of
>>>>> fetching data from memory, with a deeper request queue. Whenever I
>>>>> test(ed) g_mass_storage, I was doing so with 250 requests. And that was
>>>>> enough to give me very good performance. Never had to poke at TX FIFO
>>>>> resizing. Did you try something like this too?
>>>>> I feel that allocating more requests is a far simpler and more generic
>>>>> method that changing FIFO sizes :)
>>>> I wish I had a USB bus trace handy to show you, which would make it very
>>>> clear how the USB bus is currently utilized with TXFIFO size 2 vs 6.  So
>>>> by increasing the number of USB requests, that will help if there was a
>>>> bottleneck at the SW level where the application/function driver
>>>> utilizing the DWC3 was submitting data much faster than the HW was
>>>> processing them.
>>>> So yes, this method of increasing the # of USB reqs will definitely help
>>>> with situations such as HSUSB or in SSUSB when EP bursting isn't used.
>>>> The TXFIFO resize comes into play for SSUSB, which utilizes endpoint
>>>> bursting.
>>> Hmm, that's not what I remember. Perhaps the TRB cache size plays a role
>>> here too. I have clear memories of testing this very scenario of
>>> bursting (using g_mass_storage at the time) because I was curious about
>>> it. Back then, my tests showed no difference in behavior.
>>> It could be nice if Heikki could test Intel parts with and without your
>>> changes on g_mass_storage with 250 requests.
>> Andy, you have a system at hand that has the DWC3 block enabled,
>> right? Can you help out here?
> I'm not sure if i will have time soon, I Cc'ed to Ferry who has a few
> more test cases (I have only one or two) and maybe can help. But I'll
> keep this in mind.

I just tested on 5.13.0-rc4 on Intel Edison (x86_64). All 5 patches 
apply. Switching between host/gadget works, no connections dropping, no 
errors in dmesg.

In host mode I connect a smsc9504 eth+4p hub. In gadget mode I have 
composite device created from configfs with gser / eem / mass_storage / 

Tested with iperf3 performance in host (93.6Mbits/sec) and gadget 
(207Mbits/sec) mode. Compared to v5.10.41 without patches host 
(93.4Mbits/sec) and gadget (198Mbits/sec).

Gadget seems to be a little faster with the patches, but that might also 
be caused  by something else, on v5.10.41 I see the bitrate bouncing 
between 207 and 199.

I saw a mention to test iperf3 to self (loopback). 3.09 Gbits/sec. With 
v5.10.41 3.07Gbits/sec. Not bad for a 500MHz device.

With gnome-disks I did a read access benchmark 35.4MB/s, with v5.10.41 
34.7MB/s. This might be limited by Edison's internal eMMC speed (when 
booting U-Boot reads the kernel with 21.4 MiB/s).

>>>> Now with endpoint bursting, if the function notifies the host that
>>>> bursting is supported, when the host sends the ACK for the Data Packet,
>>>> it should have a NumP value equal to the bMaxBurst reported in the EP
>>> Yes and no. Looking back at the history, we used to configure NUMP based
>>> on bMaxBurst, but it was changed later in commit
>>> 4e99472bc10bda9906526d725ff6d5f27b4ddca1 by yours truly because of a
>>> problem reported by John Youn.
>>> And now we've come full circle. Because even if I believe more requests
>>> are enough for bursting, NUMP is limited by the RxFIFO size. This ends
>>> up supporting your claim that we need RxFIFO resizing if we want to
>>> squeeze more throughput out of the controller.
>>> However, note that this is about RxFIFO size, not TxFIFO size. In fact,
>>> looking at Table 8-13 of USB 3.1 r1.0, we read the following about NumP
>>> (emphasis is mine):
>>>        "Number of Packets (NumP). This field is used to indicate the
>>>        number of Data Packet buffers that the **receiver** can
>>>        accept. The value in this field shall be less than or equal to
>>>        the maximum burst size supported by the endpoint as determined
>>>        by the value in the bMaxBurst field in the Endpoint Companion
>>>        Descriptor (refer to Section 9.6.7)."
>>> So, NumP is for the receiver, not the transmitter. Could you clarify
>>> what you mean here?
>>> /me keeps reading
>>> Hmm, table 8-15 tries to clarify:
>>>        "Number of Packets (NumP).
>>>        For an OUT endpoint, refer to Table 8-13 for the description of
>>>        this field.
>>>        For an IN endpoint this field is set by the endpoint to the
>>>        number of packets it can transmit when the host resumes
>>>        transactions to it. This field shall not have a value greater
>>>        than the maximum burst size supported by the endpoint as
>>>        indicated by the value in the bMaxBurst field in the Endpoint
>>>        Companion Descriptor. Note that the value reported in this field
>>>        may be treated by the host as informative only."
>>> However, if I remember correctly (please verify dwc3 databook), NUMP in
>>> DCFG was only for receive buffers. Thin, John, how does dwc3 compute
>>> NumP for TX/IN endpoints? Is that computed as a function of DCFG.NUMP or
>>> TxFIFO size?
>>>> desc.  If we have a TXFIFO size of 2, then normally what I have seen is
>>>> that after 2 data packets, the device issues a NRDY.  So then we'd need
>>>> to send an ERDY once data is available within the FIFO, and the same
>>>> sequence happens until the USB request is complete.  With this constant
>>>> NRDY/ERDY handshake going on, you actually see that the bus is under
>>>> utilized.  When we increase an EP's FIFO size, then you'll see constant
>>>> bursts for a request, until the request is done, or if the host runs out
>>>> of RXFIFO. (ie no interruption [on the USB protocol level] during USB
>>>> request data transfer)
>>> Unfortunately I don't have access to a USB sniffer anymore :-(
>>>>>>>>> Good points.
>>>>>>>>> Wesley, what kind of testing have you done on this on different devices?
>>>>>>>> As mentioned above, these changes are currently present on end user
>>>>>>>> devices for the past few years, so its been through a lot of testing :).
>>>>>>> all with the same gadget driver. Also, who uses USB on android devices
>>>>>>> these days? Most of the data transfer goes via WiFi or Bluetooth, anyway
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>> I guess only developers are using USB during development to flash dev
>>>>>>> images heh.
>>>>>> I used to be a customer facing engineer, so honestly I did see some
>>>>>> really interesting and crazy designs.  Again, we do have non-Android
>>>>>> products that use the same code, and it has been working in there for a
>>>>>> few years as well.  The TXFIFO sizing really has helped with multimedia
>>>>>> use cases, which use isoc endpoints, since esp. in those lower end CPU
>>>>>> chips where latencies across the system are much larger, and a missed
>>>>>> ISOC interval leads to a pop in your ear.
>>>>> This is good background information. Thanks for bringing this
>>>>> up. Admitedly, we still have ISOC issues with dwc3. I'm interested in
>>>>> knowing if a deeper request queue would also help here.
>>>>> Remember dwc3 can accomodate 255 requests + link for each endpoint. If
>>>>> our gadget driver uses a low number of requests, we're never really
>>>>> using the TRB ring in our benefit.
>>>> We're actually using both a deeper USB request queue + TX fifo resizing. :).
>>> okay, great. Let's see what John and/or Thinh respond WRT dwc3 TX Burst
>>> behavior.
>> --
>> heikki

  reply	other threads:[~2021-06-12 21:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-05-19  7:49 [PATCH v9 0/5] Re-introduce TX FIFO resize for larger EP bursting Wesley Cheng
2021-05-19  7:49 ` [PATCH v9 1/5] usb: gadget: udc: core: Introduce check_config to verify USB configuration Wesley Cheng
2021-05-19  7:49 ` [PATCH v9 2/5] usb: gadget: configfs: Check USB configuration before adding Wesley Cheng
2021-05-19  7:49 ` [PATCH v9 3/5] usb: dwc3: Resize TX FIFOs to meet EP bursting requirements Wesley Cheng
2021-05-19  7:49 ` [PATCH v9 4/5] usb: dwc3: dwc3-qcom: Enable tx-fifo-resize property by default Wesley Cheng
2021-05-19  7:49 ` [PATCH v9 5/5] dt-bindings: usb: dwc3: Update dwc3 TX fifo properties Wesley Cheng
2021-06-04 11:54 ` [PATCH v9 0/5] Re-introduce TX FIFO resize for larger EP bursting Greg KH
2021-06-04 14:18   ` Felipe Balbi
2021-06-04 14:36     ` Greg KH
2021-06-08  5:44       ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-10  9:20         ` Felipe Balbi
2021-06-10 10:03           ` Greg KH
2021-06-10 10:16             ` Felipe Balbi
2021-06-10 18:15           ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-11  6:29             ` Felipe Balbi
2021-06-11  8:43               ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-11 13:00                 ` Felipe Balbi
2021-06-11 13:14                   ` Heikki Krogerus
2021-06-11 13:21                     ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-06-12 21:27                       ` Ferry Toth [this message]
2021-06-12 21:37                         ` Andy Shevchenko
2021-06-14 18:58                         ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-14 19:30                           ` Ferry Toth
2021-06-15  4:22                             ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-15 19:53                               ` Ferry Toth
2021-06-17  4:25                                 ` Wesley Cheng
     [not found]                                   ` <>
2021-06-17  8:30                                     ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-17 19:54                                       ` Ferry Toth
2021-07-01  1:08                   ` Wesley Cheng
2021-06-07 16:04   ` Jack Pham
2021-06-08  5:07     ` Wesley Cheng

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