From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC5DCC433DF for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:26:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9069F20578 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:26:13 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=mg.codeaurora.org header.i=@mg.codeaurora.org header.b="wyHT1IoD" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727004AbgESS0N (ORCPT ); Tue, 19 May 2020 14:26:13 -0400 Received: from mail26.static.mailgun.info ([104.130.122.26]:12620 "EHLO mail26.static.mailgun.info" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726161AbgESS0M (ORCPT ); Tue, 19 May 2020 14:26:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; v=1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mg.codeaurora.org; q=dns/txt; s=smtp; t=1589912771; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: Date: Message-ID: From: References: Cc: To: Subject: Sender; bh=RVBObs0w625lBxLJpgvWLEnfr4zVz+nwAqtMdd7Tb/A=; b=wyHT1IoDG7KrO8MfCalfUCZIu+b+wCNBcmZCqwNgn7cJSOkMFTGbzvW6204ePQyJkaFKOspo D6YltIcrylo0OqNbXxzQl/DOZKRrh/AittEJygtvyIbzlhMTIUvCEhtrDq5VXBmZGvxwP1OF 2LuDkraHzfg+V08R1NlBsgxfcf4= X-Mailgun-Sending-Ip: 104.130.122.26 X-Mailgun-Sid: WyI1MzIzYiIsICJsaW51eC1hcm0tbXNtQHZnZXIua2VybmVsLm9yZyIsICJiZTllNGEiXQ== Received: from smtp.codeaurora.org (ec2-35-166-182-171.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com [35.166.182.171]) by mxa.mailgun.org with ESMTP id 5ec424bc.7fd9ddefc110-smtp-out-n01; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:26:04 -0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.codeaurora.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1BEDFC44788; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:26:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [10.226.58.28] (i-global254.qualcomm.com [199.106.103.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jhugo) by smtp.codeaurora.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6FFA8C433F2; Tue, 19 May 2020 18:26:02 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 smtp.codeaurora.org 6FFA8C433F2 Authentication-Results: aws-us-west-2-caf-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=codeaurora.org Authentication-Results: aws-us-west-2-caf-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=jhugo@codeaurora.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/8] Qualcomm Cloud AI 100 driver To: Greg Kroah-Hartman Cc: Dave Airlie , Arnd Bergmann , manivannan.sadhasivam@linaro.org, bjorn.andersson@linaro.org, wufan@codeaurora.org, pratanan@codeaurora.org, linux-arm-msm , LKML References: <1589465266-20056-1-git-send-email-jhugo@codeaurora.org> <93238096-5861-c140-b94f-6137977c3d65@codeaurora.org> <20200519174120.GC1158284@kroah.com> <20200519181256.GA1215993@kroah.com> From: Jeffrey Hugo Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 12:26:01 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200519181256.GA1215993@kroah.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-arm-msm-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org On 5/19/2020 12:12 PM, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 12:07:03PM -0600, Jeffrey Hugo wrote: >> On 5/19/2020 11:41 AM, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: >>> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 08:57:38AM -0600, Jeffrey Hugo wrote: >>>> On 5/18/2020 11:08 PM, Dave Airlie wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 00:12, Jeffrey Hugo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Introduction: >>>>>> Qualcomm Cloud AI 100 is a PCIe adapter card which contains a dedicated >>>>>> SoC ASIC for the purpose of efficently running Deep Learning inference >>>>>> workloads in a data center environment. >>>>>> >>>>>> The offical press release can be found at - >>>>>> https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2019/04/09/qualcomm-brings-power-efficient-artificial-intelligence-inference >>>>>> >>>>>> The offical product website is - >>>>>> https://www.qualcomm.com/products/datacenter-artificial-intelligence >>>>>> >>>>>> At the time of the offical press release, numerious technology news sites >>>>>> also covered the product. Doing a search of your favorite site is likely >>>>>> to find their coverage of it. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is our goal to have the kernel driver for the product fully upstream. >>>>>> The purpose of this RFC is to start that process. We are still doing >>>>>> development (see below), and thus not quite looking to gain acceptance quite >>>>>> yet, but now that we have a working driver we beleive we are at the stage >>>>>> where meaningful conversation with the community can occur. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jeffery, >>>>> >>>>> Just wondering what the userspace/testing plans for this driver. >>>>> >>>>> This introduces a new user facing API for a device without pointers to >>>>> users or tests for that API. >>>> >>>> We have daily internal testing, although I don't expect you to take my word >>>> for that. >>>> >>>> I would like to get one of these devices into the hands of Linaro, so that >>>> it can be put into KernelCI. Similar to other Qualcomm products. I'm trying >>>> to convince the powers that be to make this happen. >>>> >>>> Regarding what the community could do on its own, everything but the Linux >>>> driver is considered proprietary - that includes the on device firmware and >>>> the entire userspace stack. This is a decision above my pay grade. >>> >>> Ok, that's a decision you are going to have to push upward on, as we >>> really can't take this without a working, open, userspace. >> >> Fair enough. I hope that your position may have made things easier for me. >> >> I hope this doesn't widen the rift as it were, but what is the "bar" for >> this userspace? >> >> Is a simple test application that adds two numbers on the hardware >> acceptable? > > Make it the real library that you use for your applications that anyone > can then also use as well if they have the hardware. Why would you want > something "crippled"? It makes it easier to dance around real or perceived IP issues, and thus I can likely more successfully "push upward" as you put it. > >> What is the bar "working"? I intend to satisfy this request in good faith, >> but I wonder, if no one has the hardware besides our customers, and possibly >> KernelCI, can you really say that I've provided a working userspace? > > How do you know who your customers really are, or who they sell the > chips to? I could end up with one of these... :) At this time, I don't think that is going to happen, but I would like to see it regardless. >>> Especially given the copyright owner of this code, that would be just >>> crazy and foolish to not have open userspace code as well. Firmware >>> would also be wonderful as well, go poke your lawyers about derivative >>> work issues and the like for fun conversations :) >> >> Those are the kind of conversations I try to avoid :) > > Sounds like you are going to now have to have them, have fun! Honestly, I fail to see where you think there is a derivative work, so, I'm not really sure what discussions I need to revisit with our lawyers. -- Jeffrey Hugo Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. is a member of the Code Aurora Forum, a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project.