From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A567C433B4 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE9C610EA for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S234157AbhDOP4E (ORCPT ); Thu, 15 Apr 2021 11:56:04 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:57652 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S234189AbhDOPz6 (ORCPT ); Thu, 15 Apr 2021 11:55:58 -0400 Received: from casper.infradead.org (casper.infradead.org [IPv6:2001:8b0:10b:1236::1]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A8B0C06175F; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 08:55:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=casper.20170209; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version: References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=mR6aTb9tMsehQ85JfxDLTFgtEG2ZF6gM+5hV07mju9w=; b=bB7Vy1Zyuc+VF+CnYkm3CktkTa /MfZtVhQNhvG9xlaabU2om/GEmDpDPqvpyS/dE0XsPBxvZbyb/wHnRJOAZTsUyQXV5lNuJ5B6lTSU 9IBPI/4vphuH6cA2gG7PbA3UUNLGfeGboW3361tNpnY/tKjFpHtmAY4WrSJNJOTmM467Wwc35V9Zs w/sluGzUJ4YON/DZmCISR96XZsXL//cnLlMSh10oyYkemM5Oe2ZXEVYnbQqlyEQYrkknpQnAon4Am A4WdMGFtfMBJpUjjQEXXi3uLEeh+yV81Yj2u9W1YIt8tjBq2dikKGaqmtG96v2OeMB7Oc00j3K5WQ ycVjsp9w==; Received: from hch by casper.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.94 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lX4Jn-008m2a-62; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 15:54:23 +0000 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:54:11 +0100 From: Christoph Hellwig To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" Cc: Christoph Hellwig , Stefan Hajnoczi , Enrico Granata , jasowang@redhat.com, pbonzini@redhat.com, axboe@kernel.dk, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] virtio_blk: Add support for lifetime feature Message-ID: <20210415155411.GA2090820@infradead.org> References: <20210330231602.1223216-1-egranata@google.com> <20210412094217.GA981912@infradead.org> <20210412074309-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210412074309-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> X-SRS-Rewrite: SMTP reverse-path rewritten from by casper.infradead.org. See http://www.infradead.org/rpr.html Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-block@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 08:00:24AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 10:42:17AM +0100, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > A note to the virtio committee: eMMC is the worst of all the currently > > active storage standards by a large margin. It defines very strange > > ad-hoc interfaces that expose very specific internals and often provides > > very poor abstractions. > > Are we talking about the lifetime feature here? UFS has it too right? Ok, the wide margin above ignores UFS, which has a lot of the same issues as EMMC, just a little less cruft. > It's not too late to > change things if necessary... it would be great if you could provide > more of the feedback on this on the TC mailing list. I think the big main issue here is that it just forwards an awkwardly specific concept through virtio. If we want a virtio feature it really needs to stand a lone and be properly documented without referring to external specifications that are not openly available. > > It would be great it you could reach out to the > > wider storage community before taking bad ideas from the eMMC standard > > and putting it into virtio. > > Noted. It would be great if we had more representation from the storage > community ... meanwhile what would a good forum for this be? > linux-block@vger.kernel.org ? At least for linux, yes.