From: Keith Busch <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: Tim Walker <email@example.com> Cc: Ric Wheeler <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Bart Van Assche <email@example.com>, Matthew Wilcox <firstname.lastname@example.org>, "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>, Linux FS Devel <email@example.com>, "firstname.lastname@example.org" <email@example.com> Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] durability vs performance for flash devices (especially embedded!) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 01:38:08 +0900 [thread overview] Message-ID: <20210610163808.GA26360@redsun51.ssa.fujisawa.hgst.com> (raw) In-Reply-To: <45A42D25-FB2A-43EB-8123-9F7B25590018@seagate.com> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 11:07:09AM +0000, Tim Walker wrote: > Wednesday, June 9, 2021 at 9:20:52 PM Ric Wheeler wrote: > >On 6/9/21 2:47 PM, Bart Van Assche wrote: > >> On 6/9/21 11:30 AM, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > >>> maybe you should read the paper. > >>> > >>> " Thiscomparison demonstrates that using F2FS, a flash-friendly file > >>> sys-tem, does not mitigate the wear-out problem, except inasmuch asit > >>> inadvertently rate limitsallI/O to the device" > >> It seems like my email was not clear enough? What I tried to make clear > >> is that I think that there is no way to solve the flash wear issue with > >> the traditional block interface. I think that F2FS in combination with > >> the zone interface is an effective solution. > >> > >> What is also relevant in this context is that the "Flash drive lifespan > >> is a problem" paper was published in 2017. I think that the first > >> commercial SSDs with a zone interface became available at a later time > >> (summer of 2020?). > >> > >> Bart. > > > >Just to address the zone interface support, it unfortunately takes a very long > >time to make it down into the world of embedded parts (emmc is super common and > >very primitive for example). UFS parts are in higher end devices, have not had a > >chance to look at what they offer. > > > >Ric > > For zoned block devices, particularly the sequential write zones, > maybe it makes more sense for the device to manage wear leveling on a > zone-by-zone basis. It seems like it could be pretty easy for a device > to decide which head/die to select for a given zone when the zone is > initially opened after the last reset write pointer. I think device managed wear leveling was the point of zoned ssd's. If the host was managing that, then that's pretty much an open channel ssd.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-10 16:38 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2021-06-09 10:53 Ric Wheeler 2021-06-09 18:05 ` Bart Van Assche 2021-06-09 18:30 ` Matthew Wilcox 2021-06-09 18:47 ` Bart Van Assche 2021-06-10 0:16 ` Damien Le Moal 2021-06-10 1:11 ` Ric Wheeler 2021-06-10 1:20 ` Ric Wheeler 2021-06-10 11:07 ` Tim Walker 2021-06-10 16:38 ` Keith Busch [this message] [not found] ` <CAOtxgyeRf=+grEoHxVLEaSM=Yfx4KrSG5q96SmztpoWfP=QrDg@mail.gmail.com> 2021-06-10 16:22 ` Ric Wheeler 2021-06-10 17:06 ` Matthew Wilcox 2021-06-10 17:25 ` Ric Wheeler 2021-06-10 17:57 ` Viacheslav Dubeyko 2021-06-13 20:41 ` [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] SSDFS: LFS file system without GC operations + NAND flash devices lifetime prolongation Viacheslav Dubeyko
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