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[173.48.195.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m3sm1274168qkh.135.2021.06.09.18.20.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Jun 2021 18:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] durability vs performance for flash devices (especially embedded!) To: Bart Van Assche , Matthew Wilcox Cc: lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux FS Devel , linux-block@vger.kernel.org References: <55d3434d-6837-3a56-32b7-7354e73eb258@gmail.com> <0e1ed05f-4e83-7c84-dee6-ac0160be8f5c@acm.org> From: Ric Wheeler Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 21:20:38 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-block@vger.kernel.org On 6/9/21 2:47 PM, Bart Van Assche wrote: > On 6/9/21 11:30 AM, Matthew Wilcox wrote: >> maybe you should read the paper. >> >> " Thiscomparison demonstrates that using F2FS, a flash-friendly file >> sys-tem, does not mitigate the wear-out problem, except inasmuch asit >> inadvertently rate limitsallI/O to the device" > It seems like my email was not clear enough? What I tried to make clear > is that I think that there is no way to solve the flash wear issue with > the traditional block interface. I think that F2FS in combination with > the zone interface is an effective solution. > > What is also relevant in this context is that the "Flash drive lifespan > is a problem" paper was published in 2017. I think that the first > commercial SSDs with a zone interface became available at a later time > (summer of 2020?). > > Bart. Just to address the zone interface support, it unfortunately takes a very long time to make it down into the world of embedded parts (emmc is super common and very primitive for example). UFS parts are in higher end devices, have not had a chance to look at what they offer. Ric