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Tue, 15 Oct 2019 15:22:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Project idea: Swap to zoned block devices To: Matthew Wilcox Cc: Naohiro Aota , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Morton References: <20191015043827.160444-1-naohiro.aota@wdc.com> <20191015113548.GD32665@bombadil.infradead.org> <20191015150933.GF32665@bombadil.infradead.org> From: Hannes Reinecke Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=hare@suse.de; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6KyREBEACwRN6XKClPtxPiABx5GW+Yr1snfhjzExxkTYaINHsWHlsLg13kiemsS6o7 qrc+XP8FmhcnCOts9e2jxZxtmpB652lxRB9jZE40mcSLvYLM7S6aH0WXKn8bOqpqOGJiY2bc 6qz6rJuqkOx3YNuUgiAxjuoYauEl8dg4bzex3KGkGRuxzRlC8APjHlwmsr+ETxOLBfUoRNuE b4nUtaseMPkNDwM4L9+n9cxpGbdwX0XwKFhlQMbG3rWA3YqQYWj1erKIPpgpfM64hwsdk9zZ QO1krgfULH4poPQFpl2+yVeEMXtsSou915jn/51rBelXeLq+cjuK5+B/JZUXPnNDoxOG3j3V VSZxkxLJ8RO1YamqZZbVP6jhDQ/bLcAI3EfjVbxhw9KWrh8MxTcmyJPn3QMMEp3wpVX9nSOQ tzG72Up/Py67VQe0x8fqmu7R4MmddSbyqgHrab/Nu+ak6g2RRn3QHXAQ7PQUq55BDtj85hd9 W2iBiROhkZ/R+Q14cJkWhzaThN1sZ1zsfBNW0Im8OVn/J8bQUaS0a/NhpXJWv6J1ttkX3S0c QUratRfX4D1viAwNgoS0Joq7xIQD+CfJTax7pPn9rT////hSqJYUoMXkEz5IcO+hptCH1HF3 qz77aA5njEBQrDRlslUBkCZ5P+QvZgJDy0C3xRGdg6ZVXEXJOQARAQABtCpIYW5uZXMgUmVp bmVja2UgKFN1U0UgTGFicykgPGhhcmVAc3VzZS5kZT6JAkEEEwECACsCGwMFCRLMAwAGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJOisquAhkBAAoJEGz4yi9OyKjPOHoQAJLeLvr6JNHx GPcHXaJLHQiinz2QP0/wtsT8+hE26dLzxb7hgxLafj9XlAXOG3FhGd+ySlQ5wSbbjdxNjgsq FIjqQ88/Lk1NfnqG5aUTPmhEF+PzkPogEV7Pm5Q17ap22VK623MPaltEba+ly6/pGOODbKBH ak3gqa7Gro5YCQzNU0QVtMpWyeGF7xQK76DY/atvAtuVPBJHER+RPIF7iv5J3/GFIfdrM+wS BubFVDOibgM7UBnpa7aohZ9RgPkzJpzECsbmbttxYaiv8+EOwark4VjvOne8dRaj50qeyJH6 HLpBXZDJH5ZcYJPMgunghSqghgfuUsd5fHmjFr3hDb5EoqAfgiRMSDom7wLZ9TGtT6viDldv hfWaIOD5UhpNYxfNgH6Y102gtMmN4o2P6g3UbZK1diH13s9DA5vI2mO2krGz2c5BOBmcctE5 iS+JWiCizOqia5Op+B/tUNye/YIXSC4oMR++Fgt30OEafB8twxydMAE3HmY+foawCpGq06yM vAguLzvm7f6wAPesDAO9vxRNC5y7JeN4Kytl561ciTICmBR80Pdgs/Obj2DwM6dvHquQbQrU Op4XtD3eGUW4qgD99DrMXqCcSXX/uay9kOG+fQBfK39jkPKZEuEV2QdpE4Pry36SUGfohSNq xXW+bMc6P+irTT39VWFUJMcSuQINBE6KyREBEACvEJggkGC42huFAqJcOcLqnjK83t4TVwEn JRisbY/VdeZIHTGtcGLqsALDzk+bEAcZapguzfp7cySzvuR6Hyq7hKEjEHAZmI/3IDc9nbdh EgdCiFatah0XZ/p4vp7KAelYqbv8YF/ORLylAdLh9rzLR6yHFqVaR4WL4pl4kEWwFhNSHLxe 55G56/dxBuoj4RrFoX3ynerXfbp4dH2KArPc0NfoamqebuGNfEQmDbtnCGE5zKcR0zvmXsRp qU7+caufueZyLwjTU+y5p34U4PlOO2Q7/bdaPEdXfpgvSpWk1o3H36LvkPV/PGGDCLzaNn04 BdiiiPEHwoIjCXOAcR+4+eqM4TSwVpTn6SNgbHLjAhCwCDyggK+3qEGJph+WNtNU7uFfscSP k4jqlxc8P+hn9IqaMWaeX9nBEaiKffR7OKjMdtFFnBRSXiW/kOKuuRdeDjL5gWJjY+IpdafP KhjvUFtfSwGdrDUh3SvB5knSixE3qbxbhbNxmqDVzyzMwunFANujyyVizS31DnWC6tKzANkC k15CyeFC6sFFu+WpRxvC6fzQTLI5CRGAB6FAxz8Hu5rpNNZHsbYs9Vfr/BJuSUfRI/12eOCL IvxRPpmMOlcI4WDW3EDkzqNAXn5Onx/b0rFGFpM4GmSPriEJdBb4M4pSD6fN6Y/Jrng/Bdwk SQARAQABiQIlBBgBAgAPBQJOiskRAhsMBQkSzAMAAAoJEGz4yi9OyKjPgEwQAIP/gy/Xqc1q OpzfFScswk3CEoZWSqHxn/fZasa4IzkwhTUmukuIvRew+BzwvrTxhHcz9qQ8hX7iDPTZBcUt ovWPxz+3XfbGqE+q0JunlIsP4N+K/I10nyoGdoFpMFMfDnAiMUiUatHRf9Wsif/nT6oRiPNJ T0EbbeSyIYe+ZOMFfZBVGPqBCbe8YMI+JiZeez8L9JtegxQ6O3EMQ//1eoPJ5mv5lWXLFQfx f4rAcKseM8DE6xs1+1AIsSIG6H+EE3tVm+GdCkBaVAZo2VMVapx9k8RMSlW7vlGEQsHtI0FT c1XNOCGjaP4ITYUiOpfkh+N0nUZVRTxWnJqVPGZ2Nt7xCk7eoJWTSMWmodFlsKSgfblXVfdM 9qoNScM3u0b9iYYuw/ijZ7VtYXFuQdh0XMM/V6zFrLnnhNmg0pnK6hO1LUgZlrxHwLZk5X8F uD/0MCbPmsYUMHPuJd5dSLUFTlejVXIbKTSAMd0tDSP5Ms8Ds84z5eHreiy1ijatqRFWFJRp ZtWlhGRERnDH17PUXDglsOA08HCls0PHx8itYsjYCAyETlxlLApXWdVl9YVwbQpQ+i693t/Y PGu8jotn0++P19d3JwXW8t6TVvBIQ1dRZHx1IxGLMn+CkDJMOmHAUMWTAXX2rf5tUjas8/v2 azzYF4VRJsdl+d0MCaSy8mUh Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 17:22:34 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20191015150933.GF32665@bombadil.infradead.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: linux-block-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-block@vger.kernel.org On 10/15/19 5:09 PM, Matthew Wilcox wrote: > On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 03:48:47PM +0200, Hannes Reinecke wrote: >> On 10/15/19 1:35 PM, Matthew Wilcox wrote: >>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 01:38:27PM +0900, Naohiro Aota wrote: >>>> A zoned block device consists of a number of zones. Zones are >>>> either conventional and accepting random writes or sequential and >>>> requiring that writes be issued in LBA order from each zone write >>>> pointer position. For the write restriction, zoned block devices are >>>> not suitable for a swap device. Disallow swapon on them. >>> >>> That's unfortunate. I wonder what it would take to make the swap code be >>> suitable for zoned devices. It might even perform better on conventional >>> drives since swapout would be a large linear write. Swapin would be a >>> fragmented, seeky set of reads, but this would seem like an excellent >>> university project. >> >> The main problem I'm seeing is the eviction of pages from swap. >> While swapin is easy (as you can do random access on reads), evict pages >> from cache becomes extremely tricky as you can only delete entire zones. >> So how to we mark pages within zones as being stale? >> Or can we modify the swapin code to always swap in an entire zone and >> discard it immediately? > > I thought zones were too big to swap in all at once? What's a typical > zone size these days? (the answer looks very different if a zone is 1MB > or if it's 1GB) > Currently things have settled at 256MB, might be increased for ZNS. But GB would be the upper limit I'd assume. > Fundamentally an allocated anonymous page has 5 states: > > A: In memory, not written to swap (allocated) > B: In memory, dirty, not written to swap (app modifies page) > C: In memory, clean, written to swap (kernel decides to write it) > D: Not in memory, written to swap (kernel decides to reuse the memory) > E: In memory, clean, written to swap (app faults it back in for read) > > We currently have a sixth state which is a page that has previously been > written to swap but has been redirtied by the app. It will be written > back to the allocated location the next time it's targetted for writeout. > > That would have to change; since we can't do random writes, pages would > transition from states D or E back to B. Swapping out a page that has > previously been swapped will now mean appending to the tail of the swap, > not writing in place. > > So the swap code will now need to keep track of which pages are still > in use in storage and will need to be relocated once we decide to reuse > the zone. Not an insurmountable task, but not entirely trivial. > Precisely my worries. However, clearing stuff is _really_ fast (you just have to reset the pointer which is kept in NVRAM of the device). Which might help a bit. > There'd be some other gunk to deal with around handling badblocks. > Those are currently stored in page 1, so adding new ones would be > a rewrite of that block. > Bah. Can't we make that optional? We really only need badblocks when writing to crappy media (or NV-DIMM :-). Zoned devices _will_ have proper error recovery in place, so the only time where badblocks might be used is when the device is essentially dead ;-) Cheers, Hannes -- Dr. Hannes Reinecke Teamlead Storage & Networking hare@suse.de +49 911 74053 688 SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg HRB 247165 (AG München), GF: Felix Imendörffer