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From: Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org>
To: Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>
Cc: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org,
	Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org>,
	Denis Kenzior <denkenz@gmail.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Trond Myklebust <trond.myklebust@hammerspace.com>,
	Anna Schumaker <anna.schumaker@netapp.com>,
	"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>,
	Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@oracle.com>,
	Linux Crypto Mailing List <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org,
	linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 4/7] crypto: remove ARC4 support from the skcipher API
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 01:04:14 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMj1kXG7i1isB9cV57ccaOZhrG3s7x+nKGozzTewuE9uWvX_wg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAMj1kXFen1nickdZab0s8iY7SgauoH56VginEoPdxaAAL2qENw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 20:21, Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 19:50, Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > [+linux-wireless, Marcel Holtmann, and Denis Kenzior]
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 12:19:44PM +0200, Ard Biesheuvel wrote:
> > > Remove the generic ecb(arc4) skcipher, which is slightly cumbersome from
> > > a maintenance perspective, since it does not quite behave like other
> > > skciphers do in terms of key vs IV lifetime. Since we are leaving the
> > > library interface in place, which is used by the various WEP and TKIP
> > > implementations we have in the tree, we can safely drop this code now
> > > it no longer has any users.
> > >
> > > Signed-off-by: Ard Biesheuvel <ardb@kernel.org>
> >
> > Last year there was a discussion where it was mentioned that iwd uses
> > "ecb(arc4)" via AF_ALG.  So can we really remove it yet?
> > See https://lkml.kernel.org/r/97BB95F6-4A4C-4984-9EAB-6069E19B4A4F@holtmann.org
> > Note that the code isn't in "iwd" itself but rather in "libell" which iwd
> > depends on: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/libs/ell/ell.git/
> >
> > Apparently it also uses md4 and ecb(des) too.
> >
>
> Ah yes, I remember now :-(
>
> > Marcel and Denis, what's your deprecation plan for these obsolete and insecure
> > algorithms?
> >
>
> Given Denis's statement:
>
>   It sounds to me like it was broken and should be fixed.  So our vote /
>   preference is to have ARC4 fixed to follow the proper semantics.  We
>   can deal with the kernel behavioral change on our end easily enough;
>   the required workarounds are the worse evil.
>
> I would think that an ABI break is not the end of the world for them,
> and given how trivial it is to implement RC4 in C, the workaround
> should be to simply implement RC4 in user space, and not even bother
> trying to use AF_ALG to get at ecb(arc4)
>
> (same applies to md4 and ecb(des) btw)
>
> There will always be a long tail of use cases, and at some point, we
> just have to draw the line and remove obsolete and insecure cruft,
> especially when it impedes progress on other fronts.
>

I have ported iwd to Nettle's LGPL 2.1 implementation of ARC4, and the
diffstat is

 src/crypto.c      | 80 ++++++++++++--------
 src/main.c        |  8 --
 unit/test-eapol.c |  3 +-
 3 files changed, 51 insertions(+), 40 deletions(-)

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/ardb/iwd.git/log/?h=arc4-cleanup

  reply index

Thread overview: 17+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-02 10:19 [RFC PATCH 0/7] crypto: get rid of ecb(arc4) Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 1/7] staging/rtl8192e: switch to RC4 library interface Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 10:32   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 2/7] staging/rtl8192u: " Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 10:32   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 3/7] SUNRPC: remove RC4-HMAC-MD5 support from KerberosV Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 15:49   ` J. Bruce Fields
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 4/7] crypto: remove ARC4 support from the skcipher API Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 17:50   ` Eric Biggers
2020-07-02 18:21     ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 23:04       ` Ard Biesheuvel [this message]
2020-07-18  8:18         ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-25  7:06           ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-08-04 13:59             ` Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 5/7] crypto: n2 - remove ecb(arc4) support Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 6/7] crypto: bcm-iproc " Ard Biesheuvel
2020-07-02 10:19 ` [RFC PATCH 7/7] crypto: tcrypt - remove ecb(arc4) testing/benchmarking support Ard Biesheuvel

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