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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>
Cc: Guo Ren <guoren@kernel.org>,
	linux-riscv <linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-csky@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Guo Ren <guoren@linux.alibaba.com>, Will Deacon <will@kernel.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Waiman Long <longman@redhat.com>,
	Anup Patel <anup@brainfault.org>,
	Sebastian Andrzej Siewior <sebastian@breakpoint.cc>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 3/4] locking/qspinlock: Add ARCH_USE_QUEUED_SPINLOCKS_XCHG32
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:16:52 +0200
Message-ID: <YGG3JIBVO0w6W3fg@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAK8P3a2bNH-1VjsZmZJkvGzzZY=ckaaOK9ZGL-oD0DH4jW-+kQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 11:41:19AM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 9:52 AM Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 06:06:38PM +0000, guoren@kernel.org wrote:
> > > From: Guo Ren <guoren@linux.alibaba.com>
> > >
> > > Some architectures don't have sub-word swap atomic instruction,
> > > they only have the full word's one.
> > >
> > > The sub-word swap only improve the performance when:
> > > NR_CPUS < 16K
> > >  *  0- 7: locked byte
> > >  *     8: pending
> > >  *  9-15: not used
> > >  * 16-17: tail index
> > >  * 18-31: tail cpu (+1)
> > >
> > > The 9-15 bits are wasted to use xchg16 in xchg_tail.
> > >
> > > Please let architecture select xchg16/xchg32 to implement
> > > xchg_tail.
> >
> > So I really don't like this, this pushes complexity into the generic
> > code for something that's really not needed.
> >
> > Lots of RISC already implement sub-word atomics using word ll/sc.
> > Obviously they're not sharing code like they should be :/ See for
> > example arch/mips/kernel/cmpxchg.c.
> 
> That is what the previous version of the patch set did, right?
> 
> I think this v4 is nicer because the code is already there in
> qspinlock.c and just gets moved around, and the implementation
> is likely more efficient this way. The mips version could be made
> more generic, but it is also less efficient than a simple xchg
> since it requires an indirect function call plus nesting a pair of
> loops instead in place of the single single ll/sc loop in the 32-bit
> xchg.
> 
> I think the weakly typed xchg/cmpxchg implementation causes
> more problems than it solves, and we'd be better off using
> a stronger version in general, with the 8-bit and 16-bit exchanges
> using separate helpers in the same way that the fixed-length
> cmpxchg64 is separate already, there are only a couple of instances
> for each of these in the kernel.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is roughly a 50:50 split between fixed 32-bit
> and long/pointer-sized xchg/cmpxchg users in the kernel, so
> making the interface completely fixed-type would add a ton of
> churn. I created an experimental patch for this, but it's probably
> not worth it.

The mips code is pretty horrible. Using a cmpxchg loop on an ll/sc arch
is jus daft. And that's exactly what the generic xchg_tail() thing does
too.

A single LL/SC loop that sets either the upper or lower 16 bits of the
word is always better.

Anyway, an additional 'funny' is that I suspect you cannot prove fwd
progress of the entire primitive with any of this on. But who cares
about details anyway.. :/

And the whole WFE optimization that was relevant for the ticket lock, is
_still_ relevant for qspinlock, except that seems to have gone missing
again.

I just don't have much confidence here that people actually understand
what they're doing or why.

  reply index

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-27 18:06 [PATCH v4 0/4] riscv: Add qspinlock/qrwlock guoren
2021-03-27 18:06 ` [PATCH v4 1/4] riscv: cmpxchg.h: Cleanup unused code guoren
2021-03-27 18:06 ` [PATCH v4 2/4] riscv: cmpxchg.h: Merge macros guoren
2021-03-27 21:25   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-03-28  1:50     ` Guo Ren
2021-03-27 18:06 ` [PATCH v4 3/4] locking/qspinlock: Add ARCH_USE_QUEUED_SPINLOCKS_XCHG32 guoren
2021-03-27 18:43   ` Waiman Long
2021-03-28  1:48     ` Guo Ren
2021-03-29  7:50   ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-29  9:41     ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-03-29 11:16       ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2021-03-29 11:29         ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-29 12:52           ` Guo Ren
2021-03-29 13:56             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-03-30  2:26               ` Guo Ren
2021-03-30  5:51                 ` Anup Patel
2021-03-30  6:26                   ` Guo Ren
2021-03-30  7:11                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-03-31  4:18                   ` Guo Ren
2021-03-31  5:33                     ` Paul Campbell
2021-04-05 16:12                       ` Guo Ren
2021-03-31  6:44                     ` Guo Ren
2021-03-31  7:12                       ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-03-29 11:19     ` Guo Ren
2021-03-29 11:26       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-29 12:01         ` Guo Ren
2021-03-29 12:49           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-30  3:13             ` Guo Ren
2021-03-30  4:54               ` Anup Patel
2021-03-30  6:27                 ` Guo Ren
2021-03-30  8:31               ` David Laight
2021-03-30 14:09               ` Waiman Long
2021-03-31 14:47                 ` Guo Ren
2021-04-05 16:45                 ` Guo Ren
2021-03-30 16:08               ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-30 22:35                 ` Stafford Horne
2021-03-31  7:23                   ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-03-31 12:31                     ` Stafford Horne
2021-03-31 15:10                       ` Guo Ren
2021-04-06  8:51                         ` Stafford Horne
2021-04-06  3:50                     ` Guo Ren
2021-04-06  8:56                       ` Stafford Horne
2021-04-07  8:42                         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-04-07 11:36                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07 11:57                             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-04-07 12:02                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-05 16:40                 ` Guo Ren
2021-03-31 15:22             ` Guo Ren
2021-04-06  7:15               ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07  9:42                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-07 14:29                   ` Christoph Müllner
2021-04-07 14:34                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2021-04-07 15:51                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07 16:44                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07 15:52                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07 16:54                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07 16:00                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-04-07 19:50                       ` Christoph Müllner
2021-04-06 17:24               ` Boqun Feng
2021-04-07  9:26                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-29 12:13         ` Anup Patel
2021-03-29 12:54           ` Peter Zijlstra
2021-03-27 18:06 ` [PATCH v4 4/4] riscv: Convert custom spinlock/rwlock to generic qspinlock/qrwlock guoren

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