From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.4 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, INCLUDES_PATCH,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SIGNED_OFF_BY,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB31C55178 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 12:59:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03992075E for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 12:59:46 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ti.com header.i=@ti.com header.b="jDTVa0GB" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1725763AbgJ2M7n (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 08:59:43 -0400 Received: from fllv0015.ext.ti.com ([198.47.19.141]:53586 "EHLO fllv0015.ext.ti.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1725554AbgJ2M7n (ORCPT ); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 08:59:43 -0400 Received: from lelv0266.itg.ti.com ([10.180.67.225]) by fllv0015.ext.ti.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 09TCxWOt060532; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:59:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ti.com; s=ti-com-17Q1; t=1603976372; bh=DuPjch7pBzi0EzyZ8z8R+8wUMcuh8oDMffXLxKjBsGE=; h=Date:From:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=jDTVa0GBkfvebo23IdhoKaBAecBs+/aRUbvK3SB8I/rjLDCGH1Enwzx33GcJJas5h lr1ykNA30uydFuAoN3f1bmCfqYgj3s5CnZ0WQcOe5Vrtu9uy0zp1DCOmrXiDSxbzIT 7WlcRw/MMTzqszMvjqSy7ATIboBMHcz225aj+5dY= Received: from DLEE114.ent.ti.com (dlee114.ent.ti.com [157.170.170.25]) by lelv0266.itg.ti.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 09TCxW2Z075614 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:59:32 -0500 Received: from DLEE105.ent.ti.com (157.170.170.35) by DLEE114.ent.ti.com (157.170.170.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1979.3; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:59:32 -0500 Received: from lelv0327.itg.ti.com (10.180.67.183) by DLEE105.ent.ti.com (157.170.170.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1979.3 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:59:32 -0500 Received: from localhost (ileax41-snat.itg.ti.com [10.172.224.153]) by lelv0327.itg.ti.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 09TCxW3m052759; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:59:32 -0500 Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2020 07:59:32 -0500 From: Nishanth Menon To: Lukasz Luba CC: , , , , , , , , , , Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/4] dt-bindings: opp: Introduce opp-sustainable bindings Message-ID: <20201029125932.fvhaj6fsgt3qvmoc@gloomily> References: <20201028140847.1018-1-lukasz.luba@arm.com> <20201028140847.1018-2-lukasz.luba@arm.com> <20201028214713.zttk47qtua5jhieo@pureness> <5b3a99a8-6972-5c60-6cc5-00ec84387b97@arm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5b3a99a8-6972-5c60-6cc5-00ec84387b97@arm.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20171215 X-EXCLAIMER-MD-CONFIG: e1e8a2fd-e40a-4ac6-ac9b-f7e9cc9ee180 Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: devicetree@vger.kernel.org On 10:04-20201029, Lukasz Luba wrote: > > > On 10/28/20 9:47 PM, Nishanth Menon wrote: > > On 14:08-20201028, Lukasz Luba wrote: > > > Add opp-sustainable as an additional property in the OPP node to describe > > > the sustainable performance level of the device. This will help to > > > estimate the sustainable performance of the whole system. > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Lukasz Luba > > > --- > > > Documentation/devicetree/bindings/opp/opp.txt | 4 ++++ > > > 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+) > > > > > > diff --git a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/opp/opp.txt b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/opp/opp.txt > > > index 9847dfeeffcb..cd01028de305 100644 > > > --- a/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/opp/opp.txt > > > +++ b/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/opp/opp.txt > > > @@ -154,6 +154,10 @@ Optional properties: > > > - opp-suspend: Marks the OPP to be used during device suspend. If multiple OPPs > > > in the table have this, the OPP with highest opp-hz will be used. > > > +- opp-sustainable: Marks the OPP as sustainable. This property can be used for > > > + estimating sustainable performance of the whole system. If multiple OPPs in > > > + the table have this, the OPP with highest opp-hz will be used. > > > > > > By "sustainable", do you mean sustainable across Process, Voltage and > > Temperature corners upto the max rated operational Power-ON hours > > without IDLE state being achieved on the processor? > > Yes, in case of CPU: running 100% without idle at that particular OPP. > Running above that OPP would lead to cross control temperature. We need to tighten the definitions a lot more here and add that to the binding. What we are stating, if I am not misunderstanding is an OPP that is guaranteed by SoC vendor that across Process Voltage and Temperature corners - aka across the entire production spectrum for the part number, *all* devices will operate at this OPP for the mandated power-on-hours rating without hitting IDLE. Example: So -40C to 125C, across the process (hot/cold/nominal), 100s of thousands/millions of units can operate upto 125,0000 power-on-hours while running a tight deadloop OR maybe high processing function or even cpuburn[1]? Can you give me one SoC vendor and part that guarantees this? I am wondering if this is all theoretical... There are tons of parameters that come into play for "reliability" "sustainability" etc. Those are tricky terminology that typically makes legal folks pretty happy to debate for decades.. just my 2 cents. > > > > > OR do you mean to leave it up to interpretation? > > I can tell how I would use them. There is thermal governor IPA, which > needs sustainable power either form DT or uses internal algorithm to > estimate it based on lowest allowed freq OPPs. Then it estimated > internal coefficients based on that value, which is not optimal > for lowest OPPs. When some higher OPP could be marked as sustainable, > it would lead to better estimation and better power budget split. Seeing your series, I got an idea about how you plan on using it, I just think we need to be more precise in our definition.. [1] https://patrickmn.com/projects/cpuburn/ -- Regards, Nishanth Menon Key (0xDDB5849D1736249D) / Fingerprint: F8A2 8693 54EB 8232 17A3 1A34 DDB5 849D 1736 249D