From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E716C64E7C for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC992073C for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:40 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732713AbgKWS4T (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:19 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:59120 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728971AbgKWS4O (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:14 -0500 Received: from mail-yb1-xb41.google.com (mail-yb1-xb41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b41]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00615C0613CF; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb41.google.com with SMTP id r127so13134731yba.10; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=VbZ3df0KDvvcjS3oqE4FKJaZu54g4MCdauiP/ZXziJ057Qx+7gO7Xq0DclJJwhkD7A V6wIvyE+iMUTqz9Et4Z5swtCvEVohOYgCr45PQIT1naTPGLjdngls6PaxJ+2dTpwG1sS 2J24JWWgll1XCaG4p5TRtdZUw6zFy8CD4ZY8+HNTau19MRyRUhc0Rog1oJz/01j+Rfnb WQq0qXGIb+h89MExl9hJwrFqamYs85+hsGdPRw0lifURgwY7tjHV2PXA1XofJs4XbGTP NEC3DNi0ZW4kVx5Dh9aHDLI9NF0b3y4MyZAlGF5HprxmF8/01jZ1NEiPPRMmDsEjbPZl WrcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530c8BEunJnR0wvAHz7GM7Tlf3BoUFJdhEyagiplOb8fmebtcUxB ATgeO04Jk0JP04fO5wqwIYLVC06oaCpaZhmWiko= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda , Joe Perches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel