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From: Rik van Riel <riel@surriel.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>, Pankaj Gupta <pagupta@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, linux-nvdimm@ml01.01.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, jack@suse.cz, stefanha@redhat.com,
	dan.j.williams@intel.com, nilal@redhat.com, kwolf@redhat.com,
	pbonzini@redhat.com, zwisler@kernel.org,
	vishal.l.verma@intel.com, dave.jiang@intel.com, david@redhat.com,
	jmoyer@redhat.com, xiaoguangrong.eric@gmail.com,
	hch@infradead.org, mst@redhat.com, jasowang@redhat.com,
	lcapitulino@redhat.com, imammedo@redhat.com, eblake@redhat.com,
	willy@infradead.org, tytso@mit.edu, adilger.kernel@dilger.ca,
	darrick.wong@oracle.com, rjw@rjwysocki.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 21:40:02 -0500
Message-ID: <026dfd4c4f257a73063bd2f627cff5d7d4f17a60.camel@surriel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190110012617.GA4205@dastard>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1243 bytes --]

On Thu, 2019-01-10 at 12:26 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 08:17:31PM +0530, Pankaj Gupta wrote:
> >  This patch series has implementation for "virtio pmem". 
> >  "virtio pmem" is fake persistent memory(nvdimm) in guest 
> >  which allows to bypass the guest page cache. This also
> >  implements a VIRTIO based asynchronous flush mechanism.  
> 
> Hmmmm. Sharing the host page cache direct into the guest VM. Sounds
> like a good idea, but.....
> 
> This means the guest VM can now run timing attacks to observe host
> side page cache residency, and depending on the implementation I'm
> guessing that the guest will be able to control host side page
> cache eviction, too (e.g. via discard or hole punch operations).

Even if the guest can only access its own disk image,
using its own page cache pages, Pankaj's patches could
still be a win because they allow the host kernel to
easily evict page cache pages without doing IO.

Evicting page cache pages that live inside a guest
involves something like swapping, ballooning, or some
sort of callback into the guest to figure out whether
a page is clean.

Evicting page cache pages that live in the host, OTOH...

-- 
All Rights Reversed.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
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From: Rik van Riel <riel@surriel.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>, Pankaj Gupta <pagupta@redhat.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, linux-nvdimm@ml01.01.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, jack@suse.cz, stefanha@redhat.com,
	dan.j.williams@intel.com, nilal@redhat.com, kwolf@redhat.com,
	pbonzini@redhat.com, zwisler@kernel.org,
	vishal.l.verma@intel.com, dave.jiang@intel.com, david@redhat.com,
	jmoyer@redhat.com, xiaoguangrong.eric@gmail.com,
	hch@infradead.org, mst@redhat.com, jasowang@redhat.com,
	lcapitulino@redhat.com, imammedo@redhat.com, eblake@redhat.com,
	willy@infradead.org, tytso@mit.edu, adilger.kernel@dilger.ca,
	darrick.wong@oracle.com, rjw@rjwysocki.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2019 21:40:02 -0500
Message-ID: <026dfd4c4f257a73063bd2f627cff5d7d4f17a60.camel@surriel.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <20190110024002.uRoBlEB0UukGCoDAHbhvc6Zsq6cHc-w6mpbYPRxEsFM@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190110012617.GA4205@dastard>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1243 bytes --]

On Thu, 2019-01-10 at 12:26 +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2019 at 08:17:31PM +0530, Pankaj Gupta wrote:
> >  This patch series has implementation for "virtio pmem". 
> >  "virtio pmem" is fake persistent memory(nvdimm) in guest 
> >  which allows to bypass the guest page cache. This also
> >  implements a VIRTIO based asynchronous flush mechanism.  
> 
> Hmmmm. Sharing the host page cache direct into the guest VM. Sounds
> like a good idea, but.....
> 
> This means the guest VM can now run timing attacks to observe host
> side page cache residency, and depending on the implementation I'm
> guessing that the guest will be able to control host side page
> cache eviction, too (e.g. via discard or hole punch operations).

Even if the guest can only access its own disk image,
using its own page cache pages, Pankaj's patches could
still be a win because they allow the host kernel to
easily evict page cache pages without doing IO.

Evicting page cache pages that live inside a guest
involves something like swapping, ballooning, or some
sort of callback into the guest to figure out whether
a page is clean.

Evicting page cache pages that live in the host, OTOH...

-- 
All Rights Reversed.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 488 bytes --]

  parent reply index

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-01-09 14:47 Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 14:47 ` [PATCH v3 1/5] libnvdimm: nd_region flush callback support Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 14:47 ` [PATCH v3 2/5] virtio-pmem: Add virtio pmem driver Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-14 15:54   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2019-01-14 15:54     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found]     ` <20190114105314-mutt-send-email-mst-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-15  6:33       ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-15  6:33         ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 14:47 ` [PATCH v3 3/5] libnvdimm: add nd_region buffered dax_dev flag Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 14:47 ` [PATCH v3 4/5] ext4: disable map_sync for virtio pmem Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 14:47 ` [PATCH v3 5/5] xfs: " Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 14:47   ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-09 16:26   ` Darrick J. Wong
2019-01-09 18:08     ` Pankaj Gupta
     [not found] ` <20190109144736.17452-1-pagupta-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-10  1:26   ` [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device Dave Chinner
2019-01-10  1:26     ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-10  2:40     ` Rik van Riel [this message]
2019-01-10  2:40       ` Rik van Riel
2019-01-10 10:17     ` Jan Kara
2019-01-10 10:17       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]       ` <20190110101757.GC15790-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-13  1:38         ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-13  1:38           ` Pankaj Gupta
     [not found]           ` <1354249849.63357171.1547343519970.JavaMail.zimbra-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-13  1:43             ` Dan Williams
2019-01-13  1:43               ` Dan Williams
     [not found]               ` <CAPcyv4hwcgTUpgNCefCGu4DvgkYBp5b=f+hJ+FC=s5APYKoycg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-13  2:17                 ` [Qemu-devel] " Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-13  2:17                   ` Pankaj Gupta
     [not found]                   ` <540171952.63371441.1547345866585.JavaMail.zimbra-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-14  9:55                     ` Jan Kara
2019-01-14  9:55                       ` Jan Kara
     [not found]                       ` <20190114095520.GC13316-4I4JzKEfoa/jFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-14 10:16                         ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-14 10:16                           ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-11  7:45     ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-11  7:45       ` Pankaj Gupta
     [not found]       ` <1326478078.61913951.1547192704870.JavaMail.zimbra-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-13 23:29         ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-13 23:29           ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-13 23:38           ` Matthew Wilcox
2019-01-13 23:38             ` Matthew Wilcox
     [not found]             ` <20190113233820.GX6310-PfSpb0PWhxZc2C7mugBRk2EX/6BAtgUQ@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-14  2:50               ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-14  2:50                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-14  7:15               ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-14  7:15                 ` Pankaj Gupta
     [not found]                 ` <942065073.64011540.1547450140670.JavaMail.zimbra-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-14 21:25                   ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-14 21:25                     ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-14 21:35                     ` Dan Williams
2019-01-14 21:35                       ` Dan Williams
     [not found]                       ` <CAPcyv4jtPcLV-s0sKNHwwk0ug7GLBV6699dpm1h3r2xSo879dg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-14 22:21                         ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-14 22:21                           ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-15  2:19                           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2019-01-15  2:19                             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
     [not found]                             ` <20190114205031-mutt-send-email-mst-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-15  5:37                               ` [Qemu-devel] " Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-15  5:37                                 ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-15  5:35                           ` Pankaj Gupta
2019-01-15  5:35                             ` Pankaj Gupta
     [not found]                             ` <1684638419.64320214.1547530506805.JavaMail.zimbra-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2019-01-15 20:42                               ` Dave Chinner
2019-01-15 20:42                                 ` Dave Chinner
2019-02-04 22:56 ` security implications of caching with virtio pmem (was Re: [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device) Michael S. Tsirkin
2019-02-05  7:29   ` [Qemu-devel] " Pankaj Gupta
2019-02-06 14:00   ` David Hildenbrand
2019-02-06 18:01     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2019-02-11  7:29   ` [Qemu-devel] " Pankaj Gupta
2019-02-11 22:29     ` Dave Chinner
2019-02-11 22:58       ` David Hildenbrand
2019-02-11 23:07         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-01-09 13:50 [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device Pankaj Gupta

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