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From: "Mickaël Salaün" <mickael.salaun@ssi.gouv.fr>
To: Aleksa Sarai <cyphar@cyphar.com>
Cc: "James Morris" <jmorris@namei.org>,
	"Jeff Layton" <jlayton@kernel.org>,
	"Florian Weimer" <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	"Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@kernel.org>,
	"Al Viro" <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"Christian Heimes" <christian@python.org>,
	"Daniel Borkmann" <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	"Eric Chiang" <ericchiang@google.com>, "Jan Kara" <jack@suse.cz>,
	"Jann Horn" <jannh@google.com>,
	"Jonathan Corbet" <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Matthew Garrett" <mjg59@google.com>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <willy@infradead.org>,
	"Michael Kerrisk" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	"Mimi Zohar" <zohar@linux.ibm.com>,
	"Philippe Trébuchet" <philippe.trebuchet@ssi.gouv.fr>,
	"Scott Shell" <scottsh@microsoft.com>,
	"Sean Christopherson" <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
	"Shuah Khan" <shuah@kernel.org>,
	"Song Liu" <songliubraving@fb.com>,
	"Steve Dower" <steve.dower@python.org>,
	"Steve Grubb" <sgrubb@redhat.com>,
	"Thibaut Sautereau" <thibaut.sautereau@ssi.gouv.fr>,
	"Vincent Strubel" <vincent.strubel@ssi.gouv.fr>,
	"Yves-Alexis Perez" <yves-alexis.perez@ssi.gouv.fr>,
	kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/5] fs: Add support for an O_MAYEXEC flag on sys_open()
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 14:33:51 +0200
Message-ID: <045db737-107f-d06a-04ea-fdd0758de062@ssi.gouv.fr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190909122802.imfx6wp4zeroktuz@yavin>


On 09/09/2019 14:28, Aleksa Sarai wrote:
> On 2019-09-09, Mickaël Salaün <mickael.salaun@ssi.gouv.fr> wrote:
>> On 09/09/2019 12:12, James Morris wrote:
>>> On Mon, 9 Sep 2019, Mickaël Salaün wrote:
>>>> As I said, O_MAYEXEC should be ignored if it is not supported by the
>>>> kernel, which perfectly fit with the current open(2) flags behavior, and
>>>> should also behave the same with openat2(2).
>>>
>>> The problem here is programs which are already using the value of
>>> O_MAYEXEC, which will break.  Hence, openat2(2).
>>
>> Well, it still depends on the sysctl, which doesn't enforce anything by
>> default, hence doesn't break existing behavior, and this unused flags
>> could be fixed/removed or reported by sysadmins or distro developers.
>
> Okay, but then this means that new programs which really want to enforce
> O_MAYEXEC (and know that they really do want this feature) won't be able
> to unless an admin has set the relevant sysctl. Not to mention that the
> old-kernel fallback will not cover the "it's disabled by the sysctl"
> case -- so the fallback handling would need to be:
>
>     int fd = open("foo", O_MAYEXEC|O_RDONLY);
>     if (!(fcntl(fd, F_GETFL) & O_MAYEXEC))
>         fallback();
>     if (!sysctl_feature_is_enabled)
>         fallback();
>
> However, there is still a race here -- if an administrator enables
> O_MAYEXEC after the program gets the fd, then you still won't hit the
> fallback (and you can't tell that O_MAYEXEC checks weren't done).

I just replied to this concern here:
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/70e4244e-4dfb-6e67-416b-445e383aa1b5@ssi.gouv.fr/

>
> You could fix the issue with the sysctl by clearing O_MAYEXEC from
> f_flags if the sysctl is disabled. You could also avoid some of the
> problems with it being a global setting by making it a prctl(2) which
> processes can opt-in to (though this has its own major problems).

Security definition and enforcement should be manageable by sysadmins
and distro developers.

>
> Sorry, but I'm just really not a fan of this.

I guess there is some misunderstanding. I just replied to another thread
and I think it should answer your concerns (especially about the PDP and
PEP):
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/70e4244e-4dfb-6e67-416b-445e383aa1b5@ssi.gouv.fr/


--
Mickaël Salaün

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  reply index

Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-06 15:24 [PATCH v2 0/5] Add support for O_MAYEXEC Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 15:24 ` [PATCH v2 1/5] fs: Add support for an O_MAYEXEC flag on sys_open() Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 15:56   ` Florian Weimer
2019-09-06 16:06     ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 16:48       ` Jeff Layton
2019-09-06 17:13         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-06 19:43           ` Jeff Layton
2019-09-06 20:06             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-06 20:51               ` Jeff Layton
2019-09-06 21:27                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-06 22:12                 ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-09  9:33               ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 22:05             ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-06 22:18               ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-06 17:14         ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 18:38           ` Jeff Layton
2019-09-06 18:41             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-09  9:18               ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-09 15:49                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-06 18:44             ` Florian Weimer
2019-09-06 19:03             ` James Morris
2019-09-09  9:25               ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-09 10:12                 ` James Morris
2019-09-09 10:54                   ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-09 12:28                     ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-09 12:33                       ` Mickaël Salaün [this message]
2019-09-09 11:54                 ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-09 12:28                   ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 17:07       ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-06 17:20         ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-06 17:24           ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 17:40           ` Tycho Andersen
2019-09-06 18:27             ` Florian Weimer
2019-09-06 18:46               ` Tycho Andersen
2019-09-06 15:24 ` [PATCH v2 2/5] fs: Add a MAY_EXECMOUNT flag to infer the noexec mount propertie Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 15:24 ` [PATCH v2 3/5] fs: Enable to enforce noexec mounts or file exec through O_MAYEXEC Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 15:24 ` [PATCH v2 4/5] selftest/exec: Add tests for O_MAYEXEC enforcing Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 15:24 ` [PATCH v2 5/5] doc: Add documentation for the fs.open_mayexec_enforce sysctl Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-06 18:50 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] Add support for O_MAYEXEC Steve Grubb
2019-09-06 18:57   ` Florian Weimer
2019-09-06 19:07     ` Steve Grubb
2019-09-06 19:26       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-06 22:44         ` Aleksa Sarai
2019-09-09  9:09           ` Mickaël Salaün
2019-09-09  0:16 ` James Morris

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