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From: Jamie Lokier <jamie@shareable.org>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>, Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
	Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH 8/9] vfs: Implement generic revoked file operations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:02:56 +0100
Message-ID: <20090412210256.GK4394@shareable.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1r5zxk2y2.fsf@fess.ebiederm.org>

Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> I just thought about that some more and I am not convinced.
> 
> In general the current return values from proc after an I/O operation
> are suspect.  seek returns -EINVAL instead of -EIO. poll returns
> DEFAULT_POLLMASK (which doesn't set POLLERR).  So I am not convinced
> that the existing proc return values on error are correct, and they
> are recent additions so the historical precedent is not especially
> large.
> 
> EOF does give the impression that you have read all of the data from
> the /proc file, and that is in fact the case.  There is no more
> data coming from that proc file.
> 
> That the data is stale is well know.
> 
> That the data is not atomic, anything that spans more than a single
> read is not atomic.
> 
> So I don't see what returning EIO adds to the equation.  Perhaps
> that your fragile user space string parser may break?
> 
> EOF gives a clear indication the application should stop reading
> the data, because there is no more.
> 
> EIO only says that the was a problem.
> 
> I don't know of anything that depends on the rmmod behavior either
> way.  But if we can get away with it I would like to use something
> that is generally useful instead of something that only makes
> sense in the context of proc.

I'm not thinking of proc, really.  More thinking of applications: EOF
effectively means "whole file read without error - now do the next thing".

If a filesystem file is revoked (umount -f), you definitely want to
stop that Makefile which is copying a file from the unmounted
filesystem to a target file.  Otherwise you get inconsistent states
which can only occur as a result of this umount -f, something
Makefiles should never have to care about.

rmmod behaviour is not something any app should see normally.
Unexpected behaviour when files are oddly truncated (despite never
being written that way) is not "fragile user space".  So whatever it
returns, it should be some error code, imho.

-- Jamie

  reply index

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-11 12:01 [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:03 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/9] mm: Introduce remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:05 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/9] mm: Implement generic support for revoking a mapping Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:06 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/9] sysfs: Use remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:07 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/9] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:08 ` [RFC][PATCH 5/9] vfs: Introduce basic infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 22:12   ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-04-15  2:55     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:10 ` [RFC][PATCH 6/9] vfs: Utilize fops_read_lock where appropriate Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:11 ` [RFC][PATCH 7/9] vfs: Optimize fops_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:13 ` [RFC][PATCH 8/9] vfs: Implement generic revoked file operations Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 18:56   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 20:04     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:31       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 21:53         ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:54       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 21:02         ` Jamie Lokier [this message]
2009-04-12 23:06           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:14 ` [RFC][PATCH 9/9] proc: Use the generic vfs revoke facility that now exists Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 15:58 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Al Viro
2009-04-11 16:49   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 16:56     ` Al Viro
2009-04-11 23:57       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:21       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  3:16 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14  7:39   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  7:45     ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14  8:27       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  8:49         ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 15:07         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-14 19:09           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:45 ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 01/23] mm: Introduce revoke_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 22:25     ` Andrew Morton
2009-06-02  0:12       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 02/23] vfs: Implement unpoll_file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-06  8:08     ` Al Viro
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 03/23] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  7:06     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05 19:33       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:38         ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 18:38           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-10  6:05             ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 04/23] vfs: Introduce infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  5:16     ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02  6:51       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  7:08         ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02  7:14     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 17:06       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 20:52         ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03  6:37           ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 22:56       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03  6:38         ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05  9:03     ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-05 19:06       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 05/23] vfs: Teach lseek to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 06/23] vfs: Teach read/write to use file_hotplug_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 07/23] vfs: Teach sendfile,splice,tee,and vmsplice to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:39     ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-05 19:37       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 08/23] vfs: Teach readdir " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 09/23] vfs: Teach poll and select " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 10/23] vfs: Teach do_path_lookup " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 11/23] mm: Teach mmap " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 12/23] vfs: Teach fcntl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 13/23] vfs: Teach ioctl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 14/23] vfs: Teach flock " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 15/23] vfs: Teach fallocate, and filp_close " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 16/23] vfs: Teach fstatfs, fstatfs64, ftruncate, fchdir, fchmod, fchown " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 17/23] proc: Teach /proc/<pid>/fd " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 18/23] vfs: Teach epoll " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 16:51     ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 21:23       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 21:52         ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 22:51           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 14:57             ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-03 20:53               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-04  0:50                 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-04  1:42                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 19/23] eventpoll: Fix comment Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 20/23] vfs: Teach aio to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 21/23] vfs: Teach fsync " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 22/23] vfs: Teach fadvice to file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 23/23] vfs: Teach readahead to use the file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:25     ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-06  8:03   ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Al Viro
2009-06-08  9:41     ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 10:24       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-08 16:29       ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 16:44         ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 17:50           ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 18:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-08 18:50               ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 19:18                 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-09  6:42                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:52                     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09  5:50             ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-09  6:31               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09  6:22     ` Eric W. Biederman

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