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From: Al Viro <viro@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>, Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>,
	Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@gmail.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:03:34 +0100
Message-ID: <20090606080334.GA15204@ZenIV.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m1oct739xu.fsf@fess.ebiederm.org>

On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 02:45:17PM -0700, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> 
> I found myself looking at the uio, seeing that it does not support pci
> hot-unplug, and thinking "Great yet another implementation of
> hotunplug logic that needs to be added".
> 
> I decided to see what it would take to add a generic implementation of
> the code we have for supporting hot unplugging devices in sysfs, proc,
> sysctl, tty_io, and now almost in the tun driver.
> 
> Not long after I touched the tun driver and made it safe to delete the
> network device while still holding it's file descriptor open I someone
> else touch the code adding a different feature and my careful work
> went up in flames.  Which brought home another point at the best of it
> this is ultimately complex tricky code that subsystems should not need
> to worry about.
> 
> What makes this even more interesting is that in the presence of pci
> hot-unplug it looks like most subsystems and most devices will have to
> deal with the issue one way or another.
> 
> This infrastructure could also be used to implement both force
> unmounts and sys_revoke.  When I could not think of a better name for
> I have drawn on that and used revoke.

To be honest, the longer I'm looking at it, the less I like the approach...
It really looks as if we'd be much better off with functionality sitting
in a set of library helpers to be used by instances that need this stuff.
Do we really want it for generic case?

Note that "we might someday implement real force-umount" doesn't count;
the same kind of arguments had been given nine years ago in case of AIO
("oh, sure, we'll eventually cover foo_get_block() too - it will all be
a state machine, fully asynchronous; whaddya mean 'it's not feasible'?").
Of course, it was _not_ feasible and had never been implemented.

Frankly, I very much suspect that force-umount is another case like that;
we'll need a *lot* of interesting cooperation from fs for that to work and
to be useful.  I'd be delighted to be proven incorrect on that one, so
if you have anything serious in that direction, please share the details.

As for the patchset in the current form...  Could you explain what's to prevent
POSIX locks and dnotify entries from outliving a struct file you'd revoked,
seeing that filp_close() will skip killing them in that case.

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  parent reply index

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-11 12:01 [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:03 ` [RFC][PATCH 1/9] mm: Introduce remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:05 ` [RFC][PATCH 2/9] mm: Implement generic support for revoking a mapping Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:06 ` [RFC][PATCH 3/9] sysfs: Use remap_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:07 ` [RFC][PATCH 4/9] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:08 ` [RFC][PATCH 5/9] vfs: Introduce basic infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14 22:12   ` Jonathan Corbet
2009-04-15  2:55     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:10 ` [RFC][PATCH 6/9] vfs: Utilize fops_read_lock where appropriate Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:11 ` [RFC][PATCH 7/9] vfs: Optimize fops_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:13 ` [RFC][PATCH 8/9] vfs: Implement generic revoked file operations Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 18:56   ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 20:04     ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:31       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 21:53         ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:54       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 21:02         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-12 23:06           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 12:14 ` [RFC][PATCH 9/9] proc: Use the generic vfs revoke facility that now exists Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 15:58 ` [RFC][PATCH 0/9] File descriptor hot-unplug support Al Viro
2009-04-11 16:49   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-11 16:56     ` Al Viro
2009-04-11 23:57       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-12 20:21       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  3:16 ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14  7:39   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  7:45     ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14  8:27       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-04-14  8:49         ` Tejun Heo
2009-04-14 15:07         ` Jamie Lokier
2009-04-14 19:09           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:45 ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 01/23] mm: Introduce revoke_file_mappings Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 22:25     ` Andrew Morton
2009-06-02  0:12       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 02/23] vfs: Implement unpoll_file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-06  8:08     ` Al Viro
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 03/23] vfs: Generalize the file_list Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  7:06     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05 19:33       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:38         ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09 18:38           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-10  6:05             ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 04/23] vfs: Introduce infrastructure for revoking a file Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  5:16     ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02  6:51       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02  7:08         ` Pekka Enberg
2009-06-02  7:14     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 17:06       ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-02 20:52         ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03  6:37           ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-02 22:56       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03  6:38         ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-05  9:03     ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-05 19:06       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 05/23] vfs: Teach lseek to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 06/23] vfs: Teach read/write to use file_hotplug_read_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 07/23] vfs: Teach sendfile,splice,tee,and vmsplice to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:39     ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-05 19:37       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 08/23] vfs: Teach readdir " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 09/23] vfs: Teach poll and select " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 10/23] vfs: Teach do_path_lookup " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 11/23] mm: Teach mmap " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 12/23] vfs: Teach fcntl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 13/23] vfs: Teach ioctl " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 14/23] vfs: Teach flock " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 15/23] vfs: Teach fallocate, and filp_close " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 16/23] vfs: Teach fstatfs, fstatfs64, ftruncate, fchdir, fchmod, fchown " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 17/23] proc: Teach /proc/<pid>/fd " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 18/23] vfs: Teach epoll " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 16:51     ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 21:23       ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-02 21:52         ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-02 22:51           ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 14:57             ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-03 20:53               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-04  0:50                 ` Davide Libenzi
2009-06-04  1:42                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 19/23] eventpoll: Fix comment Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 20/23] vfs: Teach aio to use file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 21/23] vfs: Teach fsync " Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 22/23] vfs: Teach fadvice to file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-01 21:50   ` [PATCH 23/23] vfs: Teach readahead to use the file_hotplug_lock Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-03 23:25     ` Badari Pulavarty
2009-06-06  8:03   ` Al Viro [this message]
2009-06-08  9:41     ` [PATCH 0/23] File descriptor hot-unplug support v2 Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 10:24       ` Jamie Lokier
2009-06-08 16:29       ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 16:44         ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-08 17:50           ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 18:01             ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-08 18:50               ` Al Viro
2009-06-08 19:18                 ` Linus Torvalds
2009-06-09  6:42                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09 10:52                     ` Nick Piggin
2009-06-09  5:50             ` Miklos Szeredi
2009-06-09  6:31               ` Eric W. Biederman
2009-06-09  6:22     ` Eric W. Biederman

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