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* Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
@ 2018-09-29  8:40 Pali Rohár
  2018-10-01 20:00 ` Andreas Dilger
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-09-29  8:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-fsdevel, util-linux, linux-kernel
  Cc: Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Bombe

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Hi!

Last year I did some research how Windows and Linux tools handle FAT
labels (boot sector vs root directory) and proposed some unification.
More in thread: https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2640891.html

My proposed change for manipulating with FAT labels is now implemented
in util-linux v2.33, prepared new mtools version, and also in dosfstools
git (unreleased) https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2645732.html

Project dosfstools contains de-facto standard Linux userspace tools for
FAT filesystems (mkfs.fat, fsck.fat, fatlabel) and so it is quite
important because of high usage of FAT.

But there was no new release of dosfstools since Jan 2017 and for more
then month I'm unsuccessfully try to contact maintainer of dosfstools
project (Andreas) about future of project itself.

I do not know what happened, if either Andreas do not have time or
something else...

So does somebody know what is state of dosfstools project?

Also there are lot of proposed changes (with patches) for this project
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls and also more reported
bugs https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/issues

If Andreas does not have time, can somebody else at least look at pull
requests and do some code review?

I have some other unpublished/unfinished changes for dosfstools, but I
do not know now if it make sense to invest more time in this project
when maintainer does not respond... if this project is active or going
to be dead...

If dosfstools is going to be inactive/dead, there is still mtools
project with provides FAT tools too and maintainer of it is now
preparing new bugfix version. So at least some alternative exists.

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-09-29  8:40 Future of dosfstools project (FAT) Pali Rohár
@ 2018-10-01 20:00 ` Andreas Dilger
  2018-10-01 20:13   ` Richard Weinberger
  2018-10-01 20:14   ` Pali Rohár
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Dilger @ 2018-10-01 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: linux-fsdevel, util-linux, Linux Kernel Mailing List,
	Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Bombe

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On Sep 29, 2018, at 2:40 AM, Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Last year I did some research how Windows and Linux tools handle FAT
> labels (boot sector vs root directory) and proposed some unification.
> More in thread: https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2640891.html
> 
> My proposed change for manipulating with FAT labels is now implemented
> in util-linux v2.33, prepared new mtools version, and also in dosfstools
> git (unreleased) https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2645732.html
> 
> Project dosfstools contains de-facto standard Linux userspace tools for
> FAT filesystems (mkfs.fat, fsck.fat, fatlabel) and so it is quite
> important because of high usage of FAT.
> 
> But there was no new release of dosfstools since Jan 2017 and for more
> then month I'm unsuccessfully try to contact maintainer of dosfstools
> project (Andreas) about future of project itself.
> 
> I do not know what happened, if either Andreas do not have time or
> something else...
> 
> So does somebody know what is state of dosfstools project?
> 
> Also there are lot of proposed changes (with patches) for this project
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls and also more reported
> bugs https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/issues
> 
> If Andreas does not have time, can somebody else at least look at pull
> requests and do some code review?
> 
> I have some other unpublished/unfinished changes for dosfstools, but I
> do not know now if it make sense to invest more time in this project
> when maintainer does not respond... if this project is active or going
> to be dead...
> 
> If dosfstools is going to be inactive/dead, there is still mtools
> project with provides FAT tools too and maintainer of it is now
> preparing new bugfix version. So at least some alternative exists.

If the current dosfstools maintainer is non-responsive, you could always
fork the project in GitHub, land the critical patches into your branch,
 and make a release on your own.  If the maintainer surfaces again, then
they can pull in your patches.  If not, then you are the new maintainer.

Cheers, Andreas






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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-01 20:00 ` Andreas Dilger
@ 2018-10-01 20:13   ` Richard Weinberger
  2018-10-02  8:16     ` Pali Rohár
  2018-10-02  9:36     ` Karel Zak
  2018-10-01 20:14   ` Pali Rohár
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Richard Weinberger @ 2018-10-01 20:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: adilger
  Cc: Pali Rohár, linux-fsdevel, util-linux, LKML,
	andy.shevchenko, Karel Zak, aeb, andreas.bombe

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:01 PM Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> If the current dosfstools maintainer is non-responsive, you could always
> fork the project in GitHub, land the critical patches into your branch,
>  and make a release on your own.  If the maintainer surfaces again, then
> they can pull in your patches.  If not, then you are the new maintainer.

I also recommend talking to package maintainers of major distros.
Maybe one of them forked the project already and did what you plan to do.

In any case, let's try to avoid a drama like util-linux-ng was.

-- 
Thanks,
//richard

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-01 20:00 ` Andreas Dilger
  2018-10-01 20:13   ` Richard Weinberger
@ 2018-10-01 20:14   ` Pali Rohár
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-10-01 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Dilger
  Cc: linux-fsdevel, util-linux, Linux Kernel Mailing List,
	Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Bombe

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On Monday 01 October 2018 14:00:28 Andreas Dilger wrote:
> If not, then you are the new maintainer.

Hi! I really do not want to have another project.

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-01 20:13   ` Richard Weinberger
@ 2018-10-02  8:16     ` Pali Rohár
  2018-10-02  8:44       ` Jaroslav Skarvada
  2018-10-02  9:36     ` Karel Zak
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-10-02  8:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-fsdevel, util-linux, linux-kernel, Jaroslav Škarvada,
	mpluskal, base-system
  Cc: Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Bombe,
	Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

On Monday 01 October 2018 22:13:41 Richard Weinberger wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:01 PM Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> > If the current dosfstools maintainer is non-responsive, you could always
> > fork the project in GitHub, land the critical patches into your branch,
> >  and make a release on your own.  If the maintainer surfaces again, then
> > they can pull in your patches.  If not, then you are the new maintainer.
>-
> I also recommend talking to package maintainers of major distros.
> Maybe one of them forked the project already and did what you plan to do.
>-
> In any case, let's try to avoid a drama like util-linux-ng was.

Based on Richard's comment, I'm forwarding my original email (below) to
the Fedora, Suse and Gentoo maintainers.

On Saturday 29 September 2018 10:40:38 Pali Rohár wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Last year I did some research how Windows and Linux tools handle FAT
> labels (boot sector vs root directory) and proposed some unification.
> More in thread: https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2640891.html
> 
> My proposed change for manipulating with FAT labels is now implemented
> in util-linux v2.33, prepared new mtools version, and also in dosfstools
> git (unreleased) https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2645732.html
> 
> Project dosfstools contains de-facto standard Linux userspace tools for
> FAT filesystems (mkfs.fat, fsck.fat, fatlabel) and so it is quite
> important because of high usage of FAT.
> 
> But there was no new release of dosfstools since Jan 2017 and for more
> then month I'm unsuccessfully try to contact maintainer of dosfstools
> project (Andreas) about future of project itself.
> 
> I do not know what happened, if either Andreas do not have time or
> something else...
> 
> So does somebody know what is state of dosfstools project?
> 
> Also there are lot of proposed changes (with patches) for this project
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls and also more reported
> bugs https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/issues
> 
> If Andreas does not have time, can somebody else at least look at pull
> requests and do some code review?
> 
> I have some other unpublished/unfinished changes for dosfstools, but I
> do not know now if it make sense to invest more time in this project
> when maintainer does not respond... if this project is active or going
> to be dead...
> 
> If dosfstools is going to be inactive/dead, there is still mtools
> project with provides FAT tools too and maintainer of it is now
> preparing new bugfix version. So at least some alternative exists.

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-02  8:16     ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-10-02  8:44       ` Jaroslav Skarvada
  2018-10-12  9:19         ` Andreas Henriksson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Jaroslav Skarvada @ 2018-10-02  8:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: linux-fsdevel, util-linux, linux-kernel, mpluskal, base-system,
	Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Bombe,
	Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

----- Original Message -----
> On Monday 01 October 2018 22:13:41 Richard Weinberger wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:01 PM Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> > > If the current dosfstools maintainer is non-responsive, you could always
> > > fork the project in GitHub, land the critical patches into your branch,
> > >  and make a release on your own.  If the maintainer surfaces again, then
> > > they can pull in your patches.  If not, then you are the new maintainer.
> >-
> > I also recommend talking to package maintainers of major distros.
> > Maybe one of them forked the project already and did what you plan to do.
> >-
> > In any case, let's try to avoid a drama like util-linux-ng was.
> 
> Based on Richard's comment, I'm forwarding my original email (below) to
> the Fedora, Suse and Gentoo maintainers.
> 
> On Saturday 29 September 2018 10:40:38 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Last year I did some research how Windows and Linux tools handle FAT
> > labels (boot sector vs root directory) and proposed some unification.
> > More in thread: https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2640891.html
> > 
> > My proposed change for manipulating with FAT labels is now implemented
> > in util-linux v2.33, prepared new mtools version, and also in dosfstools
> > git (unreleased) https://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg2645732.html
> > 
> > Project dosfstools contains de-facto standard Linux userspace tools for
> > FAT filesystems (mkfs.fat, fsck.fat, fatlabel) and so it is quite
> > important because of high usage of FAT.
> > 
> > But there was no new release of dosfstools since Jan 2017 and for more
> > then month I'm unsuccessfully try to contact maintainer of dosfstools
> > project (Andreas) about future of project itself.
> > 
> > I do not know what happened, if either Andreas do not have time or
> > something else...
> > 
> > So does somebody know what is state of dosfstools project?
> > 
> > Also there are lot of proposed changes (with patches) for this project
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls and also more reported
> > bugs https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/issues
> > 
> > If Andreas does not have time, can somebody else at least look at pull
> > requests and do some code review?
> > 
> > I have some other unpublished/unfinished changes for dosfstools, but I
> > do not know now if it make sense to invest more time in this project
> > when maintainer does not respond... if this project is active or going
> > to be dead...
> > 
> > If dosfstools is going to be inactive/dead, there is still mtools
> > project with provides FAT tools too and maintainer of it is now
> > preparing new bugfix version. So at least some alternative exists.
> 
> --
> Pali Rohár
> pali.rohar@gmail.com
> 

Hi,

I am downstream maintainer of dosfstools in Fedora/RHEL. My personal opinion
with such kind of projects is that one or two years without activity doesn't
mean the project is dead. I don't know what happened with Andreas, but
in case of no response my +1 for the GitHub fork. I think it's non offensive
solution which can be easily reverted if needed. Please let me know if you do it

thanks & regards

Jaroslav

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-01 20:13   ` Richard Weinberger
  2018-10-02  8:16     ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-10-02  9:36     ` Karel Zak
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Karel Zak @ 2018-10-02  9:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Weinberger
  Cc: adilger, Pali Rohár, linux-fsdevel, util-linux, LKML,
	andy.shevchenko, aeb, andreas.bombe

On Mon, Oct 01, 2018 at 10:13:41PM +0200, Richard Weinberger wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 10:01 PM Andreas Dilger <adilger@dilger.ca> wrote:
> > If the current dosfstools maintainer is non-responsive, you could always
> > fork the project in GitHub, land the critical patches into your branch,
> >  and make a release on your own.  If the maintainer surfaces again, then
> > they can pull in your patches.  If not, then you are the new maintainer.
> 
> I also recommend talking to package maintainers of major distros.
> Maybe one of them forked the project already and did what you plan to do.
> 
> In any case, let's try to avoid a drama like util-linux-ng was.

Drama? :-) We had confirmed support from all mainstream distros before
the fork and rename. It was really not ad hoc solution. The project
has been renamed back to util-linux after confirmation from the
original maintainer.

Sometimes fork open source project is a good thing. The another
example is mutt -> mutt-kz -> neomutt ;-)

    Karel


-- 
 Karel Zak  <kzak@redhat.com>
 http://karelzak.blogspot.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-02  8:44       ` Jaroslav Skarvada
@ 2018-10-12  9:19         ` Andreas Henriksson
  2018-10-12 12:40           ` Pali Rohár
  2018-11-14 11:33           ` Pali Rohár
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Henriksson @ 2018-10-12  9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jaroslav Skarvada
  Cc: Pali Rohár, linux-fsdevel, util-linux, linux-kernel,
	mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

Hello everyone,

On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 04:44:10AM -0400, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
> I am downstream maintainer of dosfstools in Fedora/RHEL. My personal opinion
> with such kind of projects is that one or two years without activity doesn't
> mean the project is dead. I don't know what happened with Andreas, but
> in case of no response my +1 for the GitHub fork. I think it's non offensive
> solution which can be easily reverted if needed. Please let me know if you do it

It seems Andreas is a Debian Developer (like myself), so I used the
debian tooling for 'missing in action' (mia-query) and it seems
he is occationally active (but showing obvious signs of busyness).

I even found his irc nick and found him online. I told him about this
mailing list thread and he replied that he has been extremely busy
with things in his personal life lately and said he should really
try to find some time to catch up with things, but since he hasn't
replied here I thought I'd just let you know about the situation.
Hopefully things calms down for him soon to allow him to catch up.

I hope you find a good way to handle things in the mean time. More
people probably need to help out reviewing incoming issues/PRs and other
things that can help Andreas out with the maintenance burden, but with
his current lack of time it might be better if someone motivated and
capable just forks the project on github and starts doing the
maintenance work in the fork. If things works out well, maybe this gives
Andreas confidence he can safely hand over the official maintainer role
to someone with more time for it (and you can 'unfork' again).

Regards,
Andreas Henriksson

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-12  9:19         ` Andreas Henriksson
@ 2018-10-12 12:40           ` Pali Rohár
  2018-10-12 14:35             ` Doug Goldstein
  2018-11-14 11:33           ` Pali Rohár
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-10-12 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Henriksson
  Cc: Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux, linux-kernel,
	mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

On Friday 12 October 2018 11:19:41 Andreas Henriksson wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 04:44:10AM -0400, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
> > I am downstream maintainer of dosfstools in Fedora/RHEL. My personal opinion
> > with such kind of projects is that one or two years without activity doesn't
> > mean the project is dead. I don't know what happened with Andreas, but
> > in case of no response my +1 for the GitHub fork. I think it's non offensive
> > solution which can be easily reverted if needed. Please let me know if you do it
> 
> It seems Andreas is a Debian Developer (like myself), so I used the
> debian tooling for 'missing in action' (mia-query) and it seems
> he is occationally active (but showing obvious signs of busyness).
> 
> I even found his irc nick and found him online. I told him about this
> mailing list thread and he replied that he has been extremely busy
> with things in his personal life lately and said he should really
> try to find some time to catch up with things, but since he hasn't
> replied here I thought I'd just let you know about the situation.
> Hopefully things calms down for him soon to allow him to catch up.
> 
> I hope you find a good way to handle things in the mean time. More
> people probably need to help out reviewing incoming issues/PRs and other
> things that can help Andreas out with the maintenance burden, but with
> his current lack of time it might be better if someone motivated and
> capable just forks the project on github and starts doing the
> maintenance work in the fork. If things works out well, maybe this gives
> Andreas confidence he can safely hand over the official maintainer role
> to someone with more time for it (and you can 'unfork' again).
> 
> Regards,
> Andreas Henriksson

Ok, so it would be great if somebody can help Andreas with reviewing
opened dosfstools pull requests on github...

https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-12 12:40           ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-10-12 14:35             ` Doug Goldstein
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Doug Goldstein @ 2018-10-12 14:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux,
	linux-kernel, mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger


> On Oct 12, 2018, at 7:40 AM, Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Friday 12 October 2018 11:19:41 Andreas Henriksson wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 04:44:10AM -0400, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
>>> I am downstream maintainer of dosfstools in Fedora/RHEL. My personal opinion
>>> with such kind of projects is that one or two years without activity doesn't
>>> mean the project is dead. I don't know what happened with Andreas, but
>>> in case of no response my +1 for the GitHub fork. I think it's non offensive
>>> solution which can be easily reverted if needed. Please let me know if you do it
>> 
>> It seems Andreas is a Debian Developer (like myself), so I used the
>> debian tooling for 'missing in action' (mia-query) and it seems
>> he is occationally active (but showing obvious signs of busyness).
>> 
>> I even found his irc nick and found him online. I told him about this
>> mailing list thread and he replied that he has been extremely busy
>> with things in his personal life lately and said he should really
>> try to find some time to catch up with things, but since he hasn't
>> replied here I thought I'd just let you know about the situation.
>> Hopefully things calms down for him soon to allow him to catch up.
>> 
>> I hope you find a good way to handle things in the mean time. More
>> people probably need to help out reviewing incoming issues/PRs and other
>> things that can help Andreas out with the maintenance burden, but with
>> his current lack of time it might be better if someone motivated and
>> capable just forks the project on github and starts doing the
>> maintenance work in the fork. If things works out well, maybe this gives
>> Andreas confidence he can safely hand over the official maintainer role
>> to someone with more time for it (and you can 'unfork' again).
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Andreas Henriksson
> 
> Ok, so it would be great if somebody can help Andreas with reviewing
> opened dosfstools pull requests on github...
> 
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls
> 
> -- 
> Pali Rohár
> pali.rohar@gmail.com

Rather than fork it could he give someone access as a maintainer to the existing project?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-10-12  9:19         ` Andreas Henriksson
  2018-10-12 12:40           ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-11-14 11:33           ` Pali Rohár
       [not found]             ` <CAPXf_qN66-Mi+o+9ENGqCDe-_2tHaf9uM3moRcCGNvmxwH3ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-11-14 11:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Henriksson
  Cc: Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux, linux-kernel,
	mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

On Friday 12 October 2018 11:19:41 Andreas Henriksson wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> On Tue, Oct 02, 2018 at 04:44:10AM -0400, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
> > I am downstream maintainer of dosfstools in Fedora/RHEL. My personal opinion
> > with such kind of projects is that one or two years without activity doesn't
> > mean the project is dead. I don't know what happened with Andreas, but
> > in case of no response my +1 for the GitHub fork. I think it's non offensive
> > solution which can be easily reverted if needed. Please let me know if you do it
> 
> It seems Andreas is a Debian Developer (like myself), so I used the
> debian tooling for 'missing in action' (mia-query) and it seems
> he is occationally active (but showing obvious signs of busyness).
> 
> I even found his irc nick and found him online. I told him about this
> mailing list thread and he replied that he has been extremely busy
> with things in his personal life lately and said he should really
> try to find some time to catch up with things, but since he hasn't
> replied here I thought I'd just let you know about the situation.
> Hopefully things calms down for him soon to allow him to catch up.

Hi! One more month passed. Do you have some news? Probably when Andreas
can look at pending patches?

And... has somebody else time to look at those pending patches and do
some initial review? I would really appreciate if somebody look and
comment them.

There are 14 open pull requests:
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls

> I hope you find a good way to handle things in the mean time. More
> people probably need to help out reviewing incoming issues/PRs and other
> things that can help Andreas out with the maintenance burden, but with
> his current lack of time it might be better if someone motivated and
> capable just forks the project on github and starts doing the
> maintenance work in the fork. If things works out well, maybe this gives
> Andreas confidence he can safely hand over the official maintainer role
> to someone with more time for it (and you can 'unfork' again).
> 
> Regards,
> Andreas Henriksson

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
       [not found]             ` <CAPXf_qN66-Mi+o+9ENGqCDe-_2tHaf9uM3moRcCGNvmxwH3ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
@ 2018-12-06  8:38               ` Pali Rohár
  2018-12-12 13:57                 ` Pali Rohár
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-12-06  8:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Bombe
  Cc: Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux,
	linux-kernel, mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

On Thursday 06 December 2018 01:53:02 Andreas Bombe wrote:
> Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 14. Nov. 2018 um
> 12:33 Uhr:
> 
> > And... has somebody else time to look at those pending patches and do
> > some initial review? I would really appreciate if somebody look and
> > comment them.
> >
> > There are 14 open pull requests:
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls
> 
> 
> I'll spend time on this again. It would help if you could make a list of
> higher priority PRs you would like see being looked at first.

So.. here is some list:

https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/92
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/93
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/101
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/104
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/84

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-12-06  8:38               ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-12-12 13:57                 ` Pali Rohár
  2018-12-17  9:50                   ` Pali Rohár
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-12-12 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Bombe
  Cc: Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux,
	linux-kernel, mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1143 bytes --]

On Thursday 06 December 2018 09:38:28 Pali Rohár wrote:
> On Thursday 06 December 2018 01:53:02 Andreas Bombe wrote:
> > Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 14. Nov. 2018 um
> > 12:33 Uhr:
> > 
> > > And... has somebody else time to look at those pending patches and do
> > > some initial review? I would really appreciate if somebody look and
> > > comment them.
> > >
> > > There are 14 open pull requests:
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls
> > 
> > 
> > I'll spend time on this again. It would help if you could make a list of
> > higher priority PRs you would like see being looked at first.
> 
> So.. here is some list:
> 
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/92
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/93
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/101
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/104
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/84

Maybe you can start with Year 2038 problem in PR 94:
https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-12-12 13:57                 ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-12-17  9:50                   ` Pali Rohár
  2018-12-27 22:17                     ` Pali Rohár
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-12-17  9:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Bombe
  Cc: Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux,
	linux-kernel, mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1321 bytes --]

On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> On Thursday 06 December 2018 09:38:28 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > On Thursday 06 December 2018 01:53:02 Andreas Bombe wrote:
> > > Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 14. Nov. 2018 um
> > > 12:33 Uhr:
> > > 
> > > > And... has somebody else time to look at those pending patches and do
> > > > some initial review? I would really appreciate if somebody look and
> > > > comment them.
> > > >
> > > > There are 14 open pull requests:
> > > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'll spend time on this again. It would help if you could make a list of
> > > higher priority PRs you would like see being looked at first.
> > 
> > So.. here is some list:
> > 
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/92
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/93
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/101
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/104
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/84
> 
> Maybe you can start with Year 2038 problem in PR 94:
> https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94

Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-12-17  9:50                   ` Pali Rohár
@ 2018-12-27 22:17                     ` Pali Rohár
  2019-01-08 15:32                       ` Andy Shevchenko
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2018-12-27 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Bombe
  Cc: Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada, linux-fsdevel, util-linux,
	linux-kernel, mpluskal, base-system, Andy Shevchenko, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger, Richard Weinberger

On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > On Thursday 06 December 2018 09:38:28 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > On Thursday 06 December 2018 01:53:02 Andreas Bombe wrote:
> > > > Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> schrieb am Mi., 14. Nov. 2018 um
> > > > 12:33 Uhr:
> > > > 
> > > > > And... has somebody else time to look at those pending patches and do
> > > > > some initial review? I would really appreciate if somebody look and
> > > > > comment them.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are 14 open pull requests:
> > > > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pulls
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I'll spend time on this again. It would help if you could make a list of
> > > > higher priority PRs you would like see being looked at first.
> > > 
> > > So.. here is some list:
> > > 
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/92
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/93
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/101
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/104
> > > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/84
> > 
> > Maybe you can start with Year 2038 problem in PR 94:
> > https://github.com/dosfstools/dosfstools/pull/94
> 
> Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.

Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2018-12-27 22:17                     ` Pali Rohár
@ 2019-01-08 15:32                       ` Andy Shevchenko
  2019-01-08 15:39                         ` Richard Weinberger
  2019-02-09 15:40                         ` Pali Rohár
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Andy Shevchenko @ 2019-01-08 15:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada,
	Linux FS Devel, util-linux, Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal,
	base-system, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger,
	Richard Weinberger

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:

> > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
>
> Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?

Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.

-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-01-08 15:32                       ` Andy Shevchenko
@ 2019-01-08 15:39                         ` Richard Weinberger
  2019-01-14 15:17                           ` Pali Rohár
  2019-02-09 15:40                         ` Pali Rohár
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Richard Weinberger @ 2019-01-08 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andy Shevchenko
  Cc: Pali Rohár, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson,
	Jaroslav Skarvada, Linux FS Devel, util-linux,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal, base-system, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger

Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2019, 16:32:55 CET schrieb Andy Shevchenko:
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Roh�r <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Roh�r wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Roh�r wrote:
> 
> > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> >
> > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> 
> Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.

+1

Thanks,
//richard

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-01-08 15:39                         ` Richard Weinberger
@ 2019-01-14 15:17                           ` Pali Rohár
  2019-01-14 15:17                             ` Pali Rohár
  2019-01-14 15:19                             ` Richard Weinberger
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2019-01-14 15:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Weinberger
  Cc: Andy Shevchenko, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson,
	Jaroslav Skarvada, Linux FS Devel, util-linux,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal, base-system, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger

On Tuesday 08 January 2019 16:39:04 Richard Weinberger wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2019, 16:32:55 CET schrieb Andy Shevchenko:
> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > 
> > > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> > >
> > > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> > 
> > Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> > option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> > some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.
> 
> +1

I really do not want to create fork or become new "maintainer" of this
project.

If somebody else want to take project or create fork, I can prepare
patches and send them to new place. But still I would like to see code
review of patches from other people. dosfstools is a project which is
used by lot of people and is de-facto standard for FAT32 Linux support.
So breaking something should be prevented as much as possible.

Richard or Andy, if Andreas really do not have time for dosfstools, what
about you to take maintenance of dosfstools?

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-01-14 15:17                           ` Pali Rohár
@ 2019-01-14 15:17                             ` Pali Rohár
  2019-01-14 15:19                             ` Richard Weinberger
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2019-01-14 15:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Richard Weinberger
  Cc: Andy Shevchenko, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson,
	Jaroslav Skarvada, Linux FS Devel, util-linux,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal, base-system, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger

On Tuesday 08 January 2019 16:39:04 Richard Weinberger wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2019, 16:32:55 CET schrieb Andy Shevchenko:
> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > 
> > > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> > >
> > > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> > 
> > Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> > option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> > some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.
> 
> +1

I really do not want to create fork or become new "maintainer" of this
project.

If somebody else want to take project or create fork, I can prepare
patches and send them to new place. But still I would like to see code
review of patches from other people. dosfstools is a project which is
used by lot of people and is de-facto standard for FAT32 Linux support.
So breaking something should be prevented as much as possible.

Richard or Andy, if Andreas really do not have time for dosfstools, what
about you to take maintenance of dosfstools?

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-01-14 15:17                           ` Pali Rohár
  2019-01-14 15:17                             ` Pali Rohár
@ 2019-01-14 15:19                             ` Richard Weinberger
  2019-01-14 15:19                               ` Richard Weinberger
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Richard Weinberger @ 2019-01-14 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: Andy Shevchenko, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson,
	Jaroslav Skarvada, Linux FS Devel, util-linux,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal, base-system, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger

Am Montag, 14. Januar 2019, 16:17:09 CET schrieb Pali Rohár:
> On Tuesday 08 January 2019 16:39:04 Richard Weinberger wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2019, 16:32:55 CET schrieb Andy Shevchenko:
> > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> > > >
> > > > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> > > 
> > > Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> > > option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> > > some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.
> > 
> > +1
> 
> I really do not want to create fork or become new "maintainer" of this
> project.
> 
> If somebody else want to take project or create fork, I can prepare
> patches and send them to new place. But still I would like to see code
> review of patches from other people. dosfstools is a project which is
> used by lot of people and is de-facto standard for FAT32 Linux support.
> So breaking something should be prevented as much as possible.
> 
> Richard or Andy, if Andreas really do not have time for dosfstools, what
> about you to take maintenance of dosfstools?

The golden rule is: touch it, own it.
You touched it, sorry. ;-)

Thanks,
//richard

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-01-14 15:19                             ` Richard Weinberger
@ 2019-01-14 15:19                               ` Richard Weinberger
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Richard Weinberger @ 2019-01-14 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: Andy Shevchenko, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson,
	Jaroslav Skarvada, Linux FS Devel, util-linux,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal, base-system, Karel Zak,
	Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger

Am Montag, 14. Januar 2019, 16:17:09 CET schrieb Pali Rohár:
> On Tuesday 08 January 2019 16:39:04 Richard Weinberger wrote:
> > Am Dienstag, 8. Januar 2019, 16:32:55 CET schrieb Andy Shevchenko:
> > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> > > >
> > > > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> > > 
> > > Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> > > option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> > > some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.
> > 
> > +1
> 
> I really do not want to create fork or become new "maintainer" of this
> project.
> 
> If somebody else want to take project or create fork, I can prepare
> patches and send them to new place. But still I would like to see code
> review of patches from other people. dosfstools is a project which is
> used by lot of people and is de-facto standard for FAT32 Linux support.
> So breaking something should be prevented as much as possible.
> 
> Richard or Andy, if Andreas really do not have time for dosfstools, what
> about you to take maintenance of dosfstools?

The golden rule is: touch it, own it.
You touched it, sorry. ;-)

Thanks,
//richard




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-01-08 15:32                       ` Andy Shevchenko
  2019-01-08 15:39                         ` Richard Weinberger
@ 2019-02-09 15:40                         ` Pali Rohár
  2019-02-15 20:04                           ` Andy Shevchenko
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread
From: Pali Rohár @ 2019-02-09 15:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andy Shevchenko
  Cc: Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada,
	Linux FS Devel, util-linux, Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal,
	base-system, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger,
	Richard Weinberger

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 781 bytes --]

On Tuesday 08 January 2019 17:32:55 Andy Shevchenko wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> 
> > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> >
> > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> 
> Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.

Just quick update: I got github permission for merging pull requests.
I already merge some small changes. Others needs and waiting for review.

-- 
Pali Rohár
pali.rohar@gmail.com

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

* Re: Future of dosfstools project (FAT)
  2019-02-09 15:40                         ` Pali Rohár
@ 2019-02-15 20:04                           ` Andy Shevchenko
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread
From: Andy Shevchenko @ 2019-02-15 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pali Rohár
  Cc: Andreas Bombe, Andreas Henriksson, Jaroslav Skarvada,
	Linux FS Devel, util-linux, Linux Kernel Mailing List, mpluskal,
	base-system, Karel Zak, Andreas Bombe, Andreas Dilger,
	Richard Weinberger

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 5:40 PM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 08 January 2019 17:32:55 Andy Shevchenko wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 12:18 AM Pali Rohár <pali.rohar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Monday 17 December 2018 10:50:04 Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 12 December 2018 14:57:36 Pali Rohár wrote:
> >
> > > > Thanks for review of #94! As next you can take #92 from list.
> > >
> > > Andreas, can you look at next pull requests?
> >
> > Looking from a side how slow this is being processed I think the best
> > option to fork and abandon the old project if author / maintainer by
> > some reason wouldn't like to give a push rights.
>
> Just quick update: I got github permission for merging pull requests.
> I already merge some small changes. Others needs and waiting for review.

Good news for the project, thanks, Pali!

-- 
With Best Regards,
Andy Shevchenko

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2019-02-15 20:04 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2018-09-29  8:40 Future of dosfstools project (FAT) Pali Rohár
2018-10-01 20:00 ` Andreas Dilger
2018-10-01 20:13   ` Richard Weinberger
2018-10-02  8:16     ` Pali Rohár
2018-10-02  8:44       ` Jaroslav Skarvada
2018-10-12  9:19         ` Andreas Henriksson
2018-10-12 12:40           ` Pali Rohár
2018-10-12 14:35             ` Doug Goldstein
2018-11-14 11:33           ` Pali Rohár
     [not found]             ` <CAPXf_qN66-Mi+o+9ENGqCDe-_2tHaf9uM3moRcCGNvmxwH3ExQ@mail.gmail.com>
2018-12-06  8:38               ` Pali Rohár
2018-12-12 13:57                 ` Pali Rohár
2018-12-17  9:50                   ` Pali Rohár
2018-12-27 22:17                     ` Pali Rohár
2019-01-08 15:32                       ` Andy Shevchenko
2019-01-08 15:39                         ` Richard Weinberger
2019-01-14 15:17                           ` Pali Rohár
2019-01-14 15:17                             ` Pali Rohár
2019-01-14 15:19                             ` Richard Weinberger
2019-01-14 15:19                               ` Richard Weinberger
2019-02-09 15:40                         ` Pali Rohár
2019-02-15 20:04                           ` Andy Shevchenko
2018-10-02  9:36     ` Karel Zak
2018-10-01 20:14   ` Pali Rohár

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
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