From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43513C43387 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:37:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD6A20861 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:37:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728081AbfAOFhY (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Jan 2019 00:37:24 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:60184 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1725929AbfAOFhY (ORCPT ); Tue, 15 Jan 2019 00:37:24 -0500 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx05.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18BB43DFCD; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:37:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (colo-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7DB85D777; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:37:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmail21.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (zmail21.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.83.24]) by colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940AC3F953; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:37:22 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 00:37:22 -0500 (EST) From: Pankaj Gupta To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" Cc: Dave Chinner , Jan Kara , KVM list , David Hildenbrand , linux-nvdimm , Jason Wang , Qemu Developers , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, adilger kernel , Ross Zwisler , dave jiang , darrick wong , vishal l verma , Matthew Wilcox , Christoph Hellwig , Linux ACPI , jmoyer , linux-ext4 , Rik van Riel , Stefan Hajnoczi , Igor Mammedov , Dan Williams , lcapitulino@redhat.com, Kevin Wolf , Nitesh Narayan Lal , Theodore Ts'o , xiaoguangrong eric , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Linux Kernel Mailing List , linux-xfs , linux-fsdevel , Paolo Bonzini Message-ID: <208236727.64320322.1547530642536.JavaMail.zimbra@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20190114205031-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> References: <20190109144736.17452-1-pagupta@redhat.com> <20190113232902.GD4205@dastard> <20190113233820.GX6310@bombadil.infradead.org> <942065073.64011540.1547450140670.JavaMail.zimbra@redhat.com> <20190114212501.GG4205@dastard> <20190114222132.GH4205@dastard> <20190114205031-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v3 0/5] kvm "virtio pmem" device MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.67.116.141, 10.4.195.25] Thread-Topic: kvm "virtio pmem" device Thread-Index: KDa63AjJmiORNbo34aRj26i0GjRiXg== X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.15 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.29]); Tue, 15 Jan 2019 05:37:23 +0000 (UTC) Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <20190115053722.o8oY_ddGWhRApkjxxrnwf_RNIouGMzdKBcx-p6_4ack@z> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 02:15:40AM -0500, Pankaj Gupta wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Until you have images (and hence host page cache) shared between > > > > > > > multiple guests. People will want to do this, because it means > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > only need a single set of pages in host memory for executable > > > > > > > binaries rather than a set of pages per guest. Then you have > > > > > > > multiple guests being able to detect residency of the same set of > > > > > > > pages. If the guests can then, in any way, control eviction of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > pages from the host cache, then we have a guest-to-guest > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > leak channel. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think we should ever be considering something that would > > > > > > allow a > > > > > > guest to evict page's from the host's pagecache [1]. The guest > > > > > > should > > > > > > be able to kick its own references to the host's pagecache out of > > > > > > its > > > > > > own pagecache, but not be able to influence whether the host or > > > > > > another > > > > > > guest has a read-only mapping cached. > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] Unless the guest is allowed to modify the host's file; > > > > > > obviously > > > > > > truncation, holepunching, etc are going to evict pages from the > > > > > > host's > > > > > > page cache. > > > > > > > > > > This is so correct. Guest does not not evict host page cache pages > > > > > directly. > > > > > > > > They don't right now. > > > > > > > > But someone is going to end up asking for discard to work so that > > > > the guest can free unused space in the underlying spares image (i.e. > > > > make use of fstrim or mount -o discard) because they have workloads > > > > that have bursts of space usage and they need to trim the image > > > > files afterwards to keep their overall space usage under control. > > > > > > > > And then.... > > > > > > ...we reject / push back on that patch citing the above concern. > > > > So at what point do we draw the line? > > > > We're allowing writable DAX mappings, but as I've pointed out that > > means we are going to be allowing a potential information leak via > > files with shared extents to be directly mapped and written to. > > > > But we won't allow useful admin operations that allow better > > management of host side storage space similar to how normal image > > files are used by guests because it's an information leak vector? > > > > That's splitting some really fine hairs there... > > May I summarize that th security implications need to > be documented? > > In fact that would make a fine security implications section > in the device specification. This is a very good suggestion. I will document the security implications in details in device specification with details of what all filesystem features we don't support and why. Best regards, Pankaj > > > > > > > > > > In case of virtio-pmem & DAX, guest clears guest page cache > > > > > exceptional entries. > > > > > Its solely decision of host to take action on the host page cache > > > > > pages. > > > > > > > > > > In case of virtio-pmem, guest does not modify host file directly i.e > > > > > don't > > > > > perform hole punch & truncation operation directly on host file. > > > > > > > > ... this will no longer be true, and the nuclear landmine in this > > > > driver interface will have been armed.... > > > > > > I agree with the need to be careful when / if explicit cache control > > > is added, but that's not the case today. > > > > "if"? > > > > I expect it to be "when", not if. Expect the worst, plan for it now. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Dave. > > -- > > Dave Chinner > > david@fromorbit.com > >