From: Ira Weiny <ira.weiny@intel.com>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: Christopher Lameter <cl@linux.com>,
john.hubbard@gmail.com, Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
linux-mm@kvack.org, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
Christian Benvenuti <benve@cisco.com>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
Dennis Dalessandro <dennis.dalessandro@intel.com>,
Doug Ledford <dledford@redhat.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@ziepe.ca>,
Jerome Glisse <jglisse@redhat.com>,
Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
Michal Hocko <mhocko@kernel.org>,
Mike Rapoport <rppt@linux.ibm.com>,
Mike Marciniszyn <mike.marciniszyn@intel.com>,
Ralph Campbell <rcampbell@nvidia.com>,
Tom Talpey <tom@talpey.com>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, John Hubbard <jhubbard@nvidia.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/1] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 08:23:16 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190312152316.GF1119@iweiny-DESK2.sc.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190312221113.GF23020@dastard>
On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 09:11:13AM +1100, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 03:39:33AM -0700, Ira Weiny wrote:
> > IMHO I don't think that the copy_file_range() is going to carry us through the
> > next wave of user performance requirements. RDMA, while the first, is not the
> > only technology which is looking to have direct access to files. XDP is
> > another.[1]
>
> Sure, all I doing here was demonstrating that people have been
> trying to get local direct access to file mappings to DMA directly
> into them for a long time. Direct Io games like these are now
> largely unnecessary because we now have much better APIs to do
> zero-copy data transfer between files (which can do hardware offload
> if it is available!).
>
> It's the long term pins that RDMA does that are the problem here.
> I'm asssuming that for XDP, you're talking about userspace zero copy
> from files to the network hardware and vice versa? transmit is
> simple (read-only mapping), but receive probably requires bpf
> programs to ensure that data (minus headers) in the incoming packet
> stream is correctly placed into the UMEM region?
Yes, exactly.
>
> XDP receive seems pretty much like the same problem as RDMA writes
> into the file. i.e. the incoming write DMAs are going to have to
> trigger page faults if the UMEM is a long term pin so the filesystem
> behaves correctly with this remote data placement. I'd suggest that
> RDMA, XDP and anything other hardware that is going to pin
> file-backed mappings for the long term need to use the same "inform
> the fs of a write operation into it's mapping" mechanisms...
Yes agreed. I have a hack patch I'm testing right now which allows the user to
take a LAYOUT lease from user space and GUP triggers on that, either allowing
or rejecting the pin based on the lease. I think this is the first step of
what Jan suggested.[1] There is a lot more detail to work out with what
happens if that lease needs to be broken.
>
> And if we start talking about wanting to do peer-to-peer DMA from
> network/GPU device to storage device without going through a
> file-backed CPU mapping, we still need to have the filesystem
> involved to translate file offsets to storage locations the
> filesystem has allocated for the data and to lock them down for as
> long as the peer-to-peer DMA offload is in place. In effect, this
> is the same problem as RDMA+FS-DAXs - the filesystem owns the file
> offset to storage location mapping and manages storage access
> arbitration, not the mm/vma mapping presented to userspace....
I've only daydreamed about Peer-to-peer transfers. But yes I think this is the
direction we need to go. But The details of doing a
GPU -> RDMA -> {network } -> RDMA -> FS DAX
And back again... without CPU/OS involvement are only a twinkle in my eye...
If that.
Ira
[1] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20190212160707.GA19076@quack2.suse.cz/
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-03-12 23:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-03-06 23:54 [PATCH v3 0/1] mm: introduce put_user_page*(), placeholder versions john.hubbard
2019-03-06 23:54 ` [PATCH v3 1/1] " john.hubbard
2019-03-08 2:58 ` Christopher Lameter
2019-03-08 3:15 ` John Hubbard
2019-03-08 17:43 ` Weiny, Ira
2019-03-08 17:57 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-03-08 21:27 ` John Hubbard
2019-03-12 15:30 ` Ira Weiny
2019-03-13 0:38 ` John Hubbard
2019-03-13 14:49 ` Ira Weiny
2019-03-14 3:19 ` John Hubbard
2019-03-07 8:37 ` [PATCH v3 0/1] " Ira Weiny
2019-03-08 3:08 ` Christopher Lameter
2019-03-08 19:07 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-03-12 4:52 ` Christopher Lameter
2019-03-12 15:35 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-03-12 15:53 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-03-13 19:16 ` Christopher Lameter
2019-03-13 19:33 ` Jerome Glisse
2019-03-14 9:03 ` Jan Kara
2019-03-14 12:57 ` Jason Gunthorpe
2019-03-14 13:30 ` Jan Kara
2019-03-14 20:25 ` William Kucharski
2019-03-14 20:37 ` John Hubbard
2019-03-10 22:47 ` Dave Chinner
2019-03-12 5:23 ` Christopher Lameter
2019-03-12 10:39 ` Ira Weiny
2019-03-12 22:11 ` Dave Chinner
2019-03-12 15:23 ` Ira Weiny [this message]
2019-03-13 16:03 ` Christoph Hellwig
2019-03-13 19:21 ` Christopher Lameter
2019-03-14 9:06 ` Jan Kara
2019-03-18 20:12 ` John Hubbard
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