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Mon, 22 Jul 2019 00:09:22 +0000 From: Damien Le Moal To: Dave Chinner CC: Jeff Moyer , "linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org" , Christoph Hellwig , Johannes Thumshirn , Hannes Reinecke , Ting Yao Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] fs: New zonefs file system Thread-Topic: [PATCH RFC] fs: New zonefs file system Thread-Index: AQHVOF31k+9+55ZdEkmKABdH1mzidg== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 00:09:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190712030017.14321-1-damien.lemoal@wdc.com> <20190722000424.GP7689@dread.disaster.area> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com; x-originating-ip: [199.255.47.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5a4d0467-a9f7-4d09-d9cc-08d70e38d92e x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7193020);SRVR:BYAPR04MB4917; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: wdc.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5a4d0467-a9f7-4d09-d9cc-08d70e38d92e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jul 2019 00:09:22.0088 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: b61c8803-16f3-4c35-9b17-6f65f441df86 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Damien.LeMoal@wdc.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR04MB4917 Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org On 2019/07/22 9:05, Dave Chinner wrote:=0A= > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 07:15:26AM +0000, Damien Le Moal wrote:=0A= >> Jeff,=0A= >>=0A= >> On 2019/07/19 23:25, Jeff Moyer wrote:=0A= >>> OK, I can see how a file system eases adoption across multiple=0A= >>> languages, and may, in some cases, be easier to adopt by applications.= =0A= >>> However, I'm not a fan of the file system interface for this usage.=0A= >>> Once you present a file system, there are certain expectations from=0A= >>> users, and this fs breaks most of them.=0A= >>=0A= >> Your comments got me thinking more about zonefs specifications/features = and I am=0A= >> now wondering if I am not pushing this too far in terms of simplicity. S= o here=0A= >> is a new RFC/Question to chew on... While keeping as a target the concep= t of=0A= >> "file =3D=3D zone" or as close to it as possible, what do you think zone= fs minimal=0A= >> feature set should be ?=0A= >>=0A= >> One idea I have since a while back now is this:=0A= >> 1) If a zone is unused, do not show a file for it. This means adding a d= ynamic=0A= >> "zone allocation" code and supporting O_CREAT on open, unlink, etc. So h= ave more=0A= >> normal file system calls behave as with a normal FS.=0A= >> 2) Allow file names to be decided by the user instead of using a fixed n= ames.=0A= >> Again, have O_CREAT behave as expected=0A= > =0A= > So now you have to implement a persistent directory structure,=0A= > atomic/transactional updates, etc. You've just added at least 2=0A= > orders of magnitude complexity to zonefs and a very substantial=0A= > amount of additional, ongoing QA to ensure it works correctly.=0A= > =0A= > I think keeping it simple by exposing all zones to userspace and=0A= > leaving it to the application to track/index what zones it is=0A= > using is the simplest way forward for everyone.=0A= =0A= OK. Anything more complicated would probably be better implemented within a= n=0A= existing file system.=0A= =0A= Thank you for your comments.=0A= =0A= Best regards.=0A= =0A= -- =0A= Damien Le Moal=0A= Western Digital Research=0A=