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From: Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>
To: Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com>
Cc: nhorman@tuxdriver.com, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	containers@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	dhowells@redhat.com, linux-audit@redhat.com,
	netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, ebiederm@xmission.com,
	simo@redhat.com, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, Eric Paris <eparis@parisplace.org>,
	mpatel@redhat.com, Serge Hallyn <serge@hallyn.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH ghak90 V8 07/16] audit: add contid support for signalling the audit daemon
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:55:36 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHC9VhR_bKSHDn2WAUgkquu+COwZUanc0RV3GRjMDvpoJ5krjQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200330174937.xalrsiev7q3yxsx2@madcap2.tricolour.ca>

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:49 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> wrote:
> On 2020-03-30 13:34, Paul Moore wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:22 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > On 2020-03-30 10:26, Paul Moore wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > > > On 2020-03-28 23:11, Paul Moore wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 5:02 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On 2020-03-23 20:16, Paul Moore wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 6:03 PM Richard Guy Briggs <rgb@redhat.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 2020-03-18 18:06, Paul Moore wrote:

...

> > > Well, every time a record gets generated, *any* record gets generated,
> > > we'll need to check for which audit daemons this record is in scope and
> > > generate a different one for each depending on the content and whether
> > > or not the content is influenced by the scope.
> >
> > That's the problem right there - we don't want to have to generate a
> > unique record for *each* auditd on *every* record.  That is a recipe
> > for disaster.
>
> I don't see how we can get around this.
>
> We will already have that problem for PIDs in different PID namespaces.

As I said below, let's not worry about this for all of the
known/current audit records, lets just think about how we solve this
for the ACID related information.

One of the bigger problems with translating namespace info (e.g. PIDs)
across ACIDs is that an ACID - by definition - has no understanding of
namespaces (both the concept as well as any given instance).

> We already need to use a different serial number in each auditd/queue,
> or else we serialize *all* audit events on the machine and either leak
> information to the nested daemons that there are other events happenning
> on the machine, or confuse the host daemon because it now thinks that we
> are losing events due to serial numbers missing because some nested
> daemon issued an event that was not relevant to the host daemon,
> consuming a globally serial audit message sequence number.

This isn't really relevant to the ACID lists, but sure.

> > Solving this for all of the known audit records is not something we
> > need to worry about in depth at the moment (although giving it some
> > casual thought is not a bad thing), but solving this for the audit
> > container ID information *is* something we need to worry about right
> > now.
>
> If you think that a different nested contid value string per daemon is
> not acceptable, then we are back to issuing a record that has only *one*
> contid listed without any nesting information.  This brings us back to
> the original problem of keeping *all* audit log history since the boot
> of the machine to be able to track the nesting of any particular contid.

I'm not ruling anything out, except for the "let's just completely
regenerate every record for each auditd instance".

> What am I missing?  What do you suggest?

I'm missing a solution in this thread, since you are the person
driving this effort I'm asking you to get creative and present us with
some solutions. :)


-- 
paul moore
www.paul-moore.com

  reply index

Thread overview: 99+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-12-31 19:48 [PATCH ghak90 V8 00/16] audit: implement container identifier Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 01/16] audit: collect audit task parameters Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 02/16] audit: add container id Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:28   ` Paul Moore
2020-01-30 17:53     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 03/16] audit: read container ID of a process Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 04/16] audit: convert to contid list to check for orch/engine ownership Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:28   ` Paul Moore
2020-02-04 22:51     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-05 22:40       ` Paul Moore
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 05/16] audit: log drop of contid on exit of last task Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:28   ` Paul Moore
2020-02-04 23:02     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 06/16] audit: log container info of syscalls Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 07/16] audit: add contid support for signalling the audit daemon Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:28   ` Paul Moore
2020-01-23 16:29     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-23 17:09       ` Paul Moore
2020-01-23 20:04         ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-23 21:35           ` Paul Moore
2020-02-04 23:14             ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-05 22:50               ` Paul Moore
2020-02-12 22:38                 ` Steve Grubb
2020-02-13  0:09                   ` Paul Moore
2020-02-13 21:44                     ` Paul Moore
2020-03-12 19:30                       ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-13 16:29                         ` Paul Moore
2020-03-13 18:59                           ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-18 20:56                             ` Paul Moore
2020-03-18 21:26                               ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-18 21:42                                 ` Paul Moore
2020-03-18 21:55                                   ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-18 22:06                                     ` Paul Moore
2020-03-19 22:02                                       ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-24  0:16                                         ` Paul Moore
2020-03-24 21:01                                           ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-29  3:11                                             ` Paul Moore
2020-03-30 13:47                                               ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-30 14:26                                                 ` Paul Moore
2020-03-30 16:21                                                   ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-30 17:34                                                     ` Paul Moore
2020-03-30 17:49                                                       ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-30 19:55                                                         ` Paul Moore [this message]
2020-04-16 20:33                                                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-04-16 21:53                                                             ` Paul Moore
2020-04-17 22:23                                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-04-22 17:24                                                                 ` Paul Moore
2020-03-12 20:27                     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-13 16:42                       ` Paul Moore
2020-03-13 16:45                         ` Steve Grubb
2020-03-13 16:49                           ` Paul Moore
2020-03-13 19:23                         ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-18 21:01                           ` Paul Moore
2020-03-18 21:41                             ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-18 21:47                               ` Paul Moore
2020-03-19 21:47                                 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-20 21:56                                   ` Paul Moore
2020-03-25 12:29                                     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-29  3:17                                       ` Paul Moore
2020-03-30 15:23                                         ` Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 08/16] audit: add support for non-syscall auxiliary records Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 09/16] audit: add containerid support for user records Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 10/16] audit: add containerid filtering Richard Guy Briggs
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 11/16] audit: add support for containerid to network namespaces Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:28   ` Paul Moore
2020-02-04 23:42     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-05 22:51       ` Paul Moore
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 12/16] audit: contid check descendancy and nesting Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:29   ` Paul Moore
2020-01-23 21:02     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-23 21:47       ` Paul Moore
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 13/16] audit: track container nesting Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:29   ` Paul Moore
2020-01-30 19:27     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-05 23:05       ` Paul Moore
2020-02-05 23:50         ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-13 21:49           ` Paul Moore
2020-03-12 20:51             ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-13 16:47               ` Paul Moore
2020-03-14 22:42                 ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-17 18:28                   ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-03-18 21:08                   ` Paul Moore
2020-01-31 14:50     ` Steve Grubb
2020-02-04 13:19       ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-04 15:47         ` Steve Grubb
2020-02-04 15:52           ` Paul Moore
2020-02-04 18:12             ` Steve Grubb
2020-02-05 22:57               ` Paul Moore
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 14/16] audit: check contid depth and add limit config param Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:29   ` Paul Moore
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 15/16] audit: check contid count per netns and add config param limit Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:29   ` Paul Moore
2019-12-31 19:48 ` [PATCH ghak90 V8 16/16] audit: add capcontid to set contid outside init_user_ns Richard Guy Briggs
2020-01-22 21:29   ` Paul Moore
2020-02-05  0:39     ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-05 22:56       ` Paul Moore
2020-02-06 12:51         ` Richard Guy Briggs
2020-02-13 21:58           ` Paul Moore
2020-03-12 21:58             ` Richard Guy Briggs

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