* [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
@ 2020-02-10 18:01 Muhammad Ahmad
2020-02-10 18:26 ` Keith Busch
2020-02-10 21:52 ` Dave Chinner
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Muhammad Ahmad @ 2020-02-10 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: linux-fsdevel, linux-block, linux-scsi; +Cc: Tim Walker
Background:
As the capacity of HDDs increases so is the need to increase
performance to efficiently utilize this increase in capacity. The
current school of thought is to use Multi-Actuators to increase
spinning disk performance. Seagate has already announced it’s SAS
Dual-Lun, Dual-Actuator device. [1]
Discussion Proposal:
What impacts multi-actuator HDDs has on the linux storage stack?
A discussion on the pros & cons of accessing the actuators through a
single combined LUN or multiple individual LUNs? In the single LUN
scenario, how should the device communicate it’s LBA to actuator
mapping? In the case of multi-lun, how should we manage commands that
affect both actuators?
For NVMe HDDs are namespaces the appropriate abstraction of the
multiple actuators?
We would like to share our work mapping LUNs/Actuators through LVM &
MD-RAID to study the performance characteristics and hope to get some
feedback from the community on this approach.
[1] https://www.seagate.com/solutions/mach-2-multi-actuator-hard-drive/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
2020-02-10 18:01 [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs Muhammad Ahmad
@ 2020-02-10 18:26 ` Keith Busch
2020-02-11 19:18 ` James Bottomley
2020-02-10 21:52 ` Dave Chinner
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Keith Busch @ 2020-02-10 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Muhammad Ahmad; +Cc: linux-fsdevel, linux-block, linux-scsi, Tim Walker
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:01:13PM -0600, Muhammad Ahmad wrote:
> For NVMe HDDs are namespaces the appropriate abstraction of the
> multiple actuators?
This sounds closer to what "NVM Sets" defines rather than namespaces.
Section 4.9 from NVMe 1.4 spec has additional details if interested.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
2020-02-10 18:01 [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs Muhammad Ahmad
2020-02-10 18:26 ` Keith Busch
@ 2020-02-10 21:52 ` Dave Chinner
2020-02-11 19:23 ` Tim Walker
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Dave Chinner @ 2020-02-10 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Muhammad Ahmad; +Cc: linux-fsdevel, linux-block, linux-scsi, Tim Walker
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:01:13PM -0600, Muhammad Ahmad wrote:
> Background:
> As the capacity of HDDs increases so is the need to increase
> performance to efficiently utilize this increase in capacity. The
> current school of thought is to use Multi-Actuators to increase
> spinning disk performance. Seagate has already announced it’s SAS
> Dual-Lun, Dual-Actuator device. [1]
>
> Discussion Proposal:
> What impacts multi-actuator HDDs has on the linux storage stack?
>
> A discussion on the pros & cons of accessing the actuators through a
> single combined LUN or multiple individual LUNs? In the single LUN
> scenario, how should the device communicate it’s LBA to actuator
> mapping? In the case of multi-lun, how should we manage commands that
> affect both actuators?
What ground does this cover that wasn't discussed a couple of years
ago at LSFMM?
https://lwn.net/Articles/753652/
Cheers,
Dave.
--
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
2020-02-10 18:26 ` Keith Busch
@ 2020-02-11 19:18 ` James Bottomley
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2020-02-11 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Keith Busch, Muhammad Ahmad
Cc: linux-fsdevel, linux-block, linux-scsi, Tim Walker
On Mon, 2020-02-10 at 10:26 -0800, Keith Busch wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:01:13PM -0600, Muhammad Ahmad wrote:
> > For NVMe HDDs are namespaces the appropriate abstraction of the
> > multiple actuators?
>
> This sounds closer to what "NVM Sets" defines rather than namespaces.
> Section 4.9 from NVMe 1.4 spec has additional details if interested.
I've got to say that since multi-actuator devices will always be
spinning rust, bending NVMe concepts to fit them seems horribly wrong
... as does adding any rotational devices to NVMe: You just built a
clean NVM stack ... let's not contaminate it.
James
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
2020-02-10 21:52 ` Dave Chinner
@ 2020-02-11 19:23 ` Tim Walker
2020-03-03 16:40 ` Muhammad Ahmad
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Tim Walker @ 2020-02-11 19:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Chinner; +Cc: Muhammad Ahmad, linux-fsdevel, linux-block, linux-scsi
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:01:13PM -0600, Muhammad Ahmad wrote:
> > Background:
> > As the capacity of HDDs increases so is the need to increase
> > performance to efficiently utilize this increase in capacity. The
> > current school of thought is to use Multi-Actuators to increase
> > spinning disk performance. Seagate has already announced it’s SAS
> > Dual-Lun, Dual-Actuator device. [1]
> >
> > Discussion Proposal:
> > What impacts multi-actuator HDDs has on the linux storage stack?
> >
> > A discussion on the pros & cons of accessing the actuators through a
> > single combined LUN or multiple individual LUNs? In the single LUN
> > scenario, how should the device communicate it’s LBA to actuator
> > mapping? In the case of multi-lun, how should we manage commands that
> > affect both actuators?
>
> What ground does this cover that wasn't discussed a couple of years
> ago at LSFMM?
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lwn.net_Articles_753652_&d=DwIDaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=NW1X0yRHNNEluZ8sOGXBxCbQJZPWcIkPT0Uy3ynVsFU&m=2Eb6xxsYMqNOn4F3Yiola3ef2BTCKKg06zpnqJ_m1c8&s=JtxAw3Y13PHlYJygS847dBUVRXeM061Snm3hq01DFlY&e=
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave.
> --
> Dave Chinner
> david@fromorbit.com
Hi all-
The multi-actuator fundamentals remain the same from a couple of years
ago. One development is to combine the actuators' address spaces into
a single LUN. We'd like to show you a couple of system block diagrams,
and talk about the queue management and command scheduling.
Best regards,
-Tim
--
Tim Walker
Product Design Systems Engineering, Seagate Technology
(303) 775-3770
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
2020-02-11 19:23 ` Tim Walker
@ 2020-03-03 16:40 ` Muhammad Ahmad
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Muhammad Ahmad @ 2020-03-03 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tim Walker, Dave Chinner; +Cc: linux-fsdevel, linux-block, linux-scsi
Are the topics for LSF/MM/BPF finalized? Trying to see if this topic made the cut or not.
Regards,
-Muhammad
From: Timothy T. Walker <tim.t.walker@seagate.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2020 1:23 PM
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: Muhammad Ahmad <muhammad.ahmad@seagate.com>; linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>; linux-block@vger.kernel.org <linux-block@vger.kernel.org>; linux-scsi <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs
On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:01:13PM -0600, Muhammad Ahmad wrote:
> > Background:
> > As the capacity of HDDs increases so is the need to increase
> > performance to efficiently utilize this increase in capacity. The
> > current school of thought is to use Multi-Actuators to increase
> > spinning disk performance. Seagate has already announced it’s SAS
> > Dual-Lun, Dual-Actuator device. [1]
> >
> > Discussion Proposal:
> > What impacts multi-actuator HDDs has on the linux storage stack?
> >
> > A discussion on the pros & cons of accessing the actuators through a
> > single combined LUN or multiple individual LUNs? In the single LUN
> > scenario, how should the device communicate it’s LBA to actuator
> > mapping? In the case of multi-lun, how should we manage commands that
> > affect both actuators?
>
> What ground does this cover that wasn't discussed a couple of years
> ago at LSFMM?
>
>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lwn.net_Articles_753652_&d=DwIDaQ&c=IGDlg0lD0b-nebmJJ0Kp8A&r=NW1X0yRHNNEluZ8sOGXBxCbQJZPWcIkPT0Uy3ynVsFU&m=2Eb6xxsYMqNOn4F3Yiola3ef2BTCKKg06zpnqJ_m1c8&s=JtxAw3Y13PHlYJygS847dBUVRXeM061Snm3hq01DFlY&e=
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave.
> --
> Dave Chinner
> david@fromorbit.com
Hi all-
The multi-actuator fundamentals remain the same from a couple of years
ago. One development is to combine the actuators' address spaces into
a single LUN. We'd like to show you a couple of system block diagrams,
and talk about the queue management and command scheduling.
Best regards,
-Tim
--
Tim Walker
Product Design Systems Engineering, Seagate Technology
(303) 775-3770
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2020-02-10 18:01 [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Multi-actuator HDDs Muhammad Ahmad
2020-02-10 18:26 ` Keith Busch
2020-02-11 19:18 ` James Bottomley
2020-02-10 21:52 ` Dave Chinner
2020-02-11 19:23 ` Tim Walker
2020-03-03 16:40 ` Muhammad Ahmad
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