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Wed, 15 Jul 2020 02:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/3] readfile(2): a new syscall to make open/read/close faster From: Pavel Begunkov To: Miklos Szeredi Cc: Pavel Machek , Greg KH , Jan Ziak <0xe2.0x9a.0x9b@gmail.com>, Linux API , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, linux-man , Michael Kerrisk , shuah@kernel.org, Al Viro , io-uring@vger.kernel.org References: <20200705115021.GA1227929@kroah.com> <20200714065110.GA8047@amd> <4e92b851-ce9a-e2f6-3f9a-a4d47219d320@gmail.com> <7584d754-2044-a892-cf29-65259b9c4eb1@gmail.com> Autocrypt: addr=asml.silence@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFmKBOQBEAC76ZFxLAKpDw0bKQ8CEiYJRGn8MHTUhURL02/7n1t0HkKQx2K1fCXClbps bdwSHrhOWdW61pmfMbDYbTj6ZvGRvhoLWfGkzujB2wjNcbNTXIoOzJEGISHaPf6E2IQx1ik9 6uqVkK1OMb7qRvKH0i7HYP4WJzYbEWVyLiAxUj611mC9tgd73oqZ2pLYzGTqF2j6a/obaqha +hXuWTvpDQXqcOZJXIW43atprH03G1tQs7VwR21Q1eq6Yvy2ESLdc38EqCszBfQRMmKy+cfp W3U9Mb1w0L680pXrONcnlDBCN7/sghGeMHjGKfNANjPc+0hzz3rApPxpoE7HC1uRiwC4et83 CKnncH1l7zgeBT9Oa3qEiBlaa1ZCBqrA4dY+z5fWJYjMpwI1SNp37RtF8fKXbKQg+JuUjAa9 Y6oXeyEvDHMyJYMcinl6xCqCBAXPHnHmawkMMgjr3BBRzODmMr+CPVvnYe7BFYfoajzqzq+h EyXSl3aBf0IDPTqSUrhbmjj5OEOYgRW5p+mdYtY1cXeK8copmd+fd/eTkghok5li58AojCba jRjp7zVOLOjDlpxxiKhuFmpV4yWNh5JJaTbwCRSd04sCcDNlJj+TehTr+o1QiORzc2t+N5iJ NbILft19Izdn8U39T5oWiynqa1qCLgbuFtnYx1HlUq/HvAm+kwARAQABtDFQYXZlbCBCZWd1 bmtvdiAoc2lsZW5jZSkgPGFzbWwuc2lsZW5jZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+iQJOBBMBCAA4FiEE+6Ju PTjTbx479o3OWt5b1Glr+6UFAlmKBOQCGwMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ Wt5b1Glr+6WxZA//QueaKHzgdnOikJ7NA/Vq8FmhRlwgtP0+E+w93kL+ZGLzS/cUCIjn2f4Q Mcutj2Neg0CcYPX3b2nJiKr5Vn0rjJ/suiaOa1h1KzyNTOmxnsqE5fmxOf6C6x+NKE18I5Jy xzLQoktbdDVA7JfB1itt6iWSNoOTVcvFyvfe5ggy6FSCcP+m1RlR58XxVLH+qlAvxxOeEr/e aQfUzrs7gqdSd9zQGEZo0jtuBiB7k98t9y0oC9Jz0PJdvaj1NZUgtXG9pEtww3LdeXP/TkFl HBSxVflzeoFaj4UAuy8+uve7ya/ECNCc8kk0VYaEjoVrzJcYdKP583iRhOLlZA6HEmn/+Gh9 4orG67HNiJlbFiW3whxGizWsrtFNLsSP1YrEReYk9j1SoUHHzsu+ZtNfKuHIhK0sU07G1OPN 2rDLlzUWR9Jc22INAkhVHOogOcc5ajMGhgWcBJMLCoi219HlX69LIDu3Y34uIg9QPZIC2jwr 24W0kxmK6avJr7+n4o8m6sOJvhlumSp5TSNhRiKvAHB1I2JB8Q1yZCIPzx+w1ALxuoWiCdwV M/azguU42R17IuBzK0S3hPjXpEi2sK/k4pEPnHVUv9Cu09HCNnd6BRfFGjo8M9kZvw360gC1 reeMdqGjwQ68o9x0R7NBRrtUOh48TDLXCANAg97wjPoy37dQE7e5Ag0EWYoE5AEQAMWS+aBV IJtCjwtfCOV98NamFpDEjBMrCAfLm7wZlmXy5I6o7nzzCxEw06P2rhzp1hIqkaab1kHySU7g dkpjmQ7Jjlrf6KdMP87mC/Hx4+zgVCkTQCKkIxNE76Ff3O9uTvkWCspSh9J0qPYyCaVta2D1 Sq5HZ8WFcap71iVO1f2/FEHKJNz/YTSOS/W7dxJdXl2eoj3gYX2UZNfoaVv8OXKaWslZlgqN jSg9wsTv1K73AnQKt4fFhscN9YFxhtgD/SQuOldE5Ws4UlJoaFX/yCoJL3ky2kC0WFngzwRF Yo6u/KON/o28yyP+alYRMBrN0Dm60FuVSIFafSqXoJTIjSZ6olbEoT0u17Rag8BxnxryMrgR dkccq272MaSS0eOC9K2rtvxzddohRFPcy/8bkX+t2iukTDz75KSTKO+chce62Xxdg62dpkZX xK+HeDCZ7gRNZvAbDETr6XI63hPKi891GeZqvqQVYR8e+V2725w+H1iv3THiB1tx4L2bXZDI DtMKQ5D2RvCHNdPNcZeldEoJwKoA60yg6tuUquvsLvfCwtrmVI2rL2djYxRfGNmFMrUDN1Xq F3xozA91q3iZd9OYi9G+M/OA01husBdcIzj1hu0aL+MGg4Gqk6XwjoSxVd4YT41kTU7Kk+/I 5/Nf+i88ULt6HanBYcY/+Daeo/XFABEBAAGJAjYEGAEIACAWIQT7om49ONNvHjv2jc5a3lvU aWv7pQUCWYoE5AIbDAAKCRBa3lvUaWv7pfmcEACKTRQ28b1y5ztKuLdLr79+T+LwZKHjX++P 4wKjEOECCcB6KCv3hP+J2GCXDOPZvdg/ZYZafqP68Yy8AZqkfa4qPYHmIdpODtRzZSL48kM8 LRzV8Rl7J3ItvzdBRxf4T/Zseu5U6ELiQdCUkPGsJcPIJkgPjO2ROG/ZtYa9DvnShNWPlp+R uPwPccEQPWO/NP4fJl2zwC6byjljZhW5kxYswGMLBwb5cDUZAisIukyAa8Xshdan6C2RZcNs rB3L7vsg/R8UCehxOH0C+NypG2GqjVejNZsc7bgV49EOVltS+GmGyY+moIzxsuLmT93rqyII 5rSbbcTLe6KBYcs24XEoo49Zm9oDA3jYvNpeYD8rDcnNbuZh9kTgBwFN41JHOPv0W2FEEWqe JsCwQdcOQ56rtezdCJUYmRAt3BsfjN3Jn3N6rpodi4Dkdli8HylM5iq4ooeb5VkQ7UZxbCWt UVMKkOCdFhutRmYp0mbv2e87IK4erwNHQRkHUkzbsuym8RVpAZbLzLPIYK/J3RTErL6Z99N2 m3J6pjwSJY/zNwuFPs9zGEnRO4g0BUbwGdbuvDzaq6/3OJLKohr5eLXNU3JkT+3HezydWm3W OPhauth7W0db74Qd49HXK0xe/aPrK+Cp+kU1HRactyNtF8jZQbhMCC8vMGukZtWaAwpjWiiH bA== Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 12:00:19 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org On 15/07/2020 11:49, Pavel Begunkov wrote: > On 15/07/2020 11:41, Miklos Szeredi wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:33 AM Pavel Begunkov wrote: >>> >>> On 14/07/2020 14:55, Miklos Szeredi wrote: >>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 1:36 PM Pavel Begunkov wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 14/07/2020 11:07, Miklos Szeredi wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 8:51 AM Pavel Machek wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At first, I thought that the proposed system call is capable of >>>>>>>>> reading *multiple* small files using a single system call - which >>>>>>>>> would help increase HDD/SSD queue utilization and increase IOPS (I/O >>>>>>>>> operations per second) - but that isn't the case and the proposed >>>>>>>>> system call can read just a single file. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you want to do this for multple files, use io_ring, that's what it >>>>>>>> was designed for. I think Jens was going to be adding support for the >>>>>>>> open/read/close pattern to it as well, after some other more pressing >>>>>>>> features/fixes were finished. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What about... just using io_uring for single file, too? I'm pretty >>>>>>> sure it can be wrapped in a library that is simple to use, avoiding >>>>>>> need for new syscall. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just wondering: is there a plan to add strace support to io_uring? >>>>>> And I don't just mean the syscalls associated with io_uring, but >>>>>> tracing the ring itself. >>>>> >>>>> What kind of support do you mean? io_uring is asynchronous in nature >>>>> with all intrinsic tracing/debugging/etc. problems of such APIs. >>>>> And there are a lot of handy trace points, are those not enough? >>>>> >>>>> Though, this can be an interesting project to rethink how async >>>>> APIs are worked with. >>>> >>>> Yeah, it's an interesting problem. The uring has the same events, as >>>> far as I understand, that are recorded in a multithreaded strace >>>> output (syscall entry, syscall exit); nothing more is needed> >>>> I do think this needs to be integrated into strace(1), otherwise the >>>> usefulness of that tool (which I think is *very* high) would go down >>>> drastically as io_uring usage goes up. >>> >>> Not touching the topic of usefulness of strace + io_uring, but I'd rather >>> have a tool that solves a problem, than a problem that created and honed >>> for a tool. >> >> Sorry, I'm not getting the metaphor. Can you please elaborate? > > Sure, I mean _if_ there are tools that conceptually suit better, I'd > prefer to work with them, then trying to shove a new and possibly alien > infrastructure into strace. > > But my knowledge of strace is very limited, so can't tell whether that's > the case. E.g. can it utilise static trace points? I think, if you're going to push this idea, we should start a new thread CC'ing strace devs. -- Pavel Begunkov