From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39F8C10F12 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 08:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EBC42177B for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 08:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728312AbfDQILN (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 04:11:13 -0400 Received: from mx2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:35696 "EHLO mx1.suse.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726237AbfDQILM (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 04:11:12 -0400 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at test-mx.suse.de Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A9BB12F; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 08:11:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] guarantee natural alignment for kmalloc()? To: Christopher Lameter Cc: James Bottomley , lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux-FSDevel , linux-mm , linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Michal Hocko , David Rientjes , Pekka Enberg , Joonsoo Kim , Ming Lei , linux-xfs@vger.kernel.org, Christoph Hellwig , Dave Chinner , "Darrick J . Wong" References: <790b68b7-3689-0ff6-08ae-936728bc6458@suse.cz> <1555053293.3046.4.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <68385367-8744-50c3-8a81-be3a4637ea80@suse.cz> <0100016a26cd1058-d1ed3b2e-0cca-4e61-8837-79dfeca68682-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Vlastimil Babka Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=vbabka@suse.cz; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFZdmxYBEADsw/SiUSjB0dM+vSh95UkgcHjzEVBlby/Fg+g42O7LAEkCYXi/vvq31JTB KxRWDHX0R2tgpFDXHnzZcQywawu8eSq0LxzxFNYMvtB7sV1pxYwej2qx9B75qW2plBs+7+YB 87tMFA+u+L4Z5xAzIimfLD5EKC56kJ1CsXlM8S/LHcmdD9Ctkn3trYDNnat0eoAcfPIP2OZ+ 9oe9IF/R28zmh0ifLXyJQQz5ofdj4bPf8ecEW0rhcqHfTD8k4yK0xxt3xW+6Exqp9n9bydiy tcSAw/TahjW6yrA+6JhSBv1v2tIm+itQc073zjSX8OFL51qQVzRFr7H2UQG33lw2QrvHRXqD Ot7ViKam7v0Ho9wEWiQOOZlHItOOXFphWb2yq3nzrKe45oWoSgkxKb97MVsQ+q2SYjJRBBH4 8qKhphADYxkIP6yut/eaj9ImvRUZZRi0DTc8xfnvHGTjKbJzC2xpFcY0DQbZzuwsIZ8OPJCc LM4S7mT25NE5kUTG/TKQCk922vRdGVMoLA7dIQrgXnRXtyT61sg8PG4wcfOnuWf8577aXP1x 6mzw3/jh3F+oSBHb/GcLC7mvWreJifUL2gEdssGfXhGWBo6zLS3qhgtwjay0Jl+kza1lo+Cv BB2T79D4WGdDuVa4eOrQ02TxqGN7G0Biz5ZLRSFzQSQwLn8fbwARAQABtCBWbGFzdGltaWwg QmFia2EgPHZiYWJrYUBzdXNlLmN6PokCVAQTAQoAPgIbAwULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIe AQIXgBYhBKlA1DSZLC6OmRA9UCJPp+fMgqZkBQJcbbyGBQkH8VTqAAoJECJPp+fMgqZkpGoP /1jhVihakxw1d67kFhPgjWrbzaeAYOJu7Oi79D8BL8Vr5dmNPygbpGpJaCHACWp+10KXj9yz fWABs01KMHnZsAIUytVsQv35DMMDzgwVmnoEIRBhisMYOQlH2bBn/dqBjtnhs7zTL4xtqEcF 1hoUFEByMOey7gm79utTk09hQE/Zo2x0Ikk98sSIKBETDCl4mkRVRlxPFl4O/w8dSaE4eczH LrKezaFiZOv6S1MUKVKzHInonrCqCNbXAHIeZa3JcXCYj1wWAjOt9R3NqcWsBGjFbkgoKMGD usiGabetmQjXNlVzyOYdAdrbpVRNVnaL91sB2j8LRD74snKsV0Wzwt90YHxDQ5z3M75YoIdl byTKu3BUuqZxkQ/emEuxZ7aRJ1Zw7cKo/IVqjWaQ1SSBDbZ8FAUPpHJxLdGxPRN8Pfw8blKY 8mvLJKoF6i9T6+EmlyzxqzOFhcc4X5ig5uQoOjTIq6zhLO+nqVZvUDd2Kz9LMOCYb516cwS/ Enpi0TcZ5ZobtLqEaL4rupjcJG418HFQ1qxC95u5FfNki+YTmu6ZLXy+1/9BDsPuZBOKYpUm 3HWSnCS8J5Ny4SSwfYPH/JrtberWTcCP/8BHmoSpS/3oL3RxrZRRVnPHFzQC6L1oKvIuyXYF rkybPXYbmNHN+jTD3X8nRqo+4Qhmu6SHi3VquQENBFsZNQwBCACuowprHNSHhPBKxaBX7qOv KAGCmAVhK0eleElKy0sCkFghTenu1sA9AV4okL84qZ9gzaEoVkgbIbDgRbKY2MGvgKxXm+kY n8tmCejKoeyVcn9Xs0K5aUZiDz4Ll9VPTiXdf8YcjDgeP6/l4kHb4uSW4Aa9ds0xgt0gP1Xb AMwBlK19YvTDZV5u3YVoGkZhspfQqLLtBKSt3FuxTCU7hxCInQd3FHGJT/IIrvm07oDO2Y8J DXWHGJ9cK49bBGmK9B4ajsbe5GxtSKFccu8BciNluF+BqbrIiM0upJq5Xqj4y+Xjrpwqm4/M ScBsV0Po7qdeqv0pEFIXKj7IgO/d4W2bABEBAAGJA3IEGAEKACYWIQSpQNQ0mSwujpkQPVAi T6fnzIKmZAUCWxk1DAIbAgUJA8JnAAFACRAiT6fnzIKmZMB0IAQZAQoAHRYhBKZ2GgCcqNxn k0Sx9r6Fd25170XjBQJbGTUMAAoJEL6Fd25170XjDBUH/2jQ7a8g+FC2qBYxU/aCAVAVY0NE YuABL4LJ5+iWwmqUh0V9+lU88Cv4/G8fWwU+hBykSXhZXNQ5QJxyR7KWGy7LiPi7Cvovu+1c 9Z9HIDNd4u7bxGKMpn19U12ATUBHAlvphzluVvXsJ23ES/F1c59d7IrgOnxqIcXxr9dcaJ2K k9VP3TfrjP3g98OKtSsyH0xMu0MCeyewf1piXyukFRRMKIErfThhmNnLiDbaVy6biCLx408L Mo4cCvEvqGKgRwyckVyo3JuhqreFeIKBOE1iHvf3x4LU8cIHdjhDP9Wf6ws1XNqIvve7oV+w B56YWoalm1rq00yUbs2RoGcXmtX1JQ//aR/paSuLGLIb3ecPB88rvEXPsizrhYUzbe1TTkKc 4a4XwW4wdc6pRPVFMdd5idQOKdeBk7NdCZXNzoieFntyPpAq+DveK01xcBoXQ2UktIFIsXey uSNdLd5m5lf7/3f0BtaY//f9grm363NUb9KBsTSnv6Vx7Co0DWaxgC3MFSUhxzBzkJNty+2d 10jvtwOWzUN+74uXGRYSq5WefQWqqQNnx+IDb4h81NmpIY/X0PqZrapNockj3WHvpbeVFAJ0 9MRzYP3x8e5OuEuJfkNnAbwRGkDy98nXW6fKeemREjr8DWfXLKFWroJzkbAVmeIL0pjXATxr +tj5JC0uvMrrXefUhXTo0SNoTsuO/OsAKOcVsV/RHHTwCDR2e3W8mOlA3QbYXsscgjghbuLh J3oTRrOQa8tUXWqcd5A0+QPo5aaMHIK0UAthZsry5EmCY3BrbXUJlt+23E93hXQvfcsmfi0N rNh81eknLLWRYvMOsrbIqEHdZBT4FHHiGjnck6EYx/8F5BAZSodRVEAgXyC8IQJ+UVa02QM5 D2VL8zRXZ6+wARKjgSrW+duohn535rG/ypd0ctLoXS6dDrFokwTQ2xrJiLbHp9G+noNTHSan ExaRzyLbvmblh3AAznb68cWmM3WVkceWACUalsoTLKF1sGrrIBj5updkKkzbKOq5gcC5AQ0E Wxk1NQEIAJ9B+lKxYlnKL5IehF1XJfknqsjuiRzj5vnvVrtFcPlSFL12VVFVUC2tT0A1Iuo9 NAoZXEeuoPf1dLDyHErrWnDyn3SmDgb83eK5YS/K363RLEMOQKWcawPJGGVTIRZgUSgGusKL NuZqE5TCqQls0x/OPljufs4gk7E1GQEgE6M90Xbp0w/r0HB49BqjUzwByut7H2wAdiNAbJWZ F5GNUS2/2IbgOhOychHdqYpWTqyLgRpf+atqkmpIJwFRVhQUfwztuybgJLGJ6vmh/LyNMRr8 J++SqkpOFMwJA81kpjuGR7moSrUIGTbDGFfjxmskQV/W/c25Xc6KaCwXah3OJ40AEQEAAYkC PAQYAQoAJhYhBKlA1DSZLC6OmRA9UCJPp+fMgqZkBQJbGTU1AhsMBQkDwmcAAAoJECJPp+fM gqZkPN4P/Ra4NbETHRj5/fM1fjtngt4dKeX/6McUPDIRuc58B6FuCQxtk7sX3ELs+1+w3eSV rHI5cOFRSdgw/iKwwBix8D4Qq0cnympZ622KJL2wpTPRLlNaFLoe5PkoORAjVxLGplvQIlhg miljQ3R63ty3+MZfkSVsYITlVkYlHaSwP2t8g7yTVa+q8ZAx0NT9uGWc/1Sg8j/uoPGrctml hFNGBTYyPq6mGW9jqaQ8en3ZmmJyw3CHwxZ5FZQ5qc55xgshKiy8jEtxh+dgB9d8zE/S/UGI E99N/q+kEKSgSMQMJ/CYPHQJVTi4YHh1yq/qTkHRX+ortrF5VEeDJDv+SljNStIxUdroPD29 2ijoaMFTAU+uBtE14UP5F+LWdmRdEGS1Ah1NwooL27uAFllTDQxDhg/+LJ/TqB8ZuidOIy1B xVKRSg3I2m+DUTVqBy7Lixo73hnW69kSjtqCeamY/NSu6LNP+b0wAOKhwz9hBEwEHLp05+mj 5ZFJyfGsOiNUcMoO/17FO4EBxSDP3FDLllpuzlFD7SXkfJaMWYmXIlO0jLzdfwfcnDzBbPwO hBM8hvtsyq8lq8vJOxv6XD6xcTtj5Az8t2JjdUX6SF9hxJpwhBU0wrCoGDkWp4Bbv6jnF7zP Nzftr4l8RuJoywDIiJpdaNpSlXKpj/K6KrnyAI/joYc7 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:07:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0100016a26cd1058-d1ed3b2e-0cca-4e61-8837-79dfeca68682-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org On 4/16/19 5:38 PM, Christopher Lameter wrote: > On Fri, 12 Apr 2019, Vlastimil Babka wrote: > >> On 4/12/19 9:14 AM, James Bottomley wrote: >>>> In the session I hope to resolve the question whether this is indeed >>>> the right thing to do for all kmalloc() users, without an explicit >>>> alignment requests, and if it's worth the potentially worse >>>> performance/fragmentation it would impose on a hypothetical new slab >>>> implementation for which it wouldn't be optimal to split power-of-two >>>> sized pages into power-of-two-sized objects (or whether there are any >>>> other downsides). >>> >>> I think so. The question is how aligned? explicit flushing arch's >>> definitely need at least cache line alignment when using kmalloc for >>> I/O and if allocations cross cache lines they have serious coherency >>> problems. The question of how much more aligned than this is >>> interesting ... I've got to say that the power of two allocator implies >>> same alignment as size and we seem to keep growing use cases that >>> assume this. > > Well that can be controlled on a per arch level through KMALLOC_MIN_ALIGN > already. There are architectues that align to cache line boundaries. > However you sometimes have hardware with ridiculous large cache line > length configurations like VSMP with 4k. The arch and cache line limits would be respected as well, of course. >> Right, by "natural alignment" I meant exactly that - align to size for >> power-of-two sizes. > > Well for which sizes? Double word till PAGE_SIZE? Basically, yes. Above page size this is also true thanks to the buddy allocator scheme. > This gets us into weird > and difficult to comprehend rules for how objects are aligned. I don't think the rules are really difficult to comprehend for kmalloc() users when they can rely on these alignment guarantees: - alignment is at least what the arch mandates (to prevent unaligned access, which is either illegal, or slower, right?) - alignment at least to allocation size, for power of two sizes - alignment at least to cache line size for performance or coherency reasons The point is that kmalloc() users do not ever need to know the exact alignment! Why should they care? It's enough that the guarantees are fulfilled, and thanks to the "at least" part, the alignment might be e.g. twice the size sometimes (e.g. 64 instead of 32), but that's obviously not a problem for the kmalloc() user as the larger alignment still satisfies the need for the smaller alignment. (Implementation-wise a simple max(KMALLOC_MIN_ALIGN, size, cache_line) is enough if all three are a power-of-two values, otherwise we need to calculate LCM, but IIRC existing code already uses max() for KMALLOC_MIN_ALIGN and cache_line at least in SLAB). > Or do we > start on the cache line size to provide cacheline alignment and do word > alignment before? I didn't intend to change how cache line alignment works, that's a separate thing. Looks like on my system with SLAB and 64B cache line size, I have kmalloc-32 aligned to 32, kmalloc-64 aligned to 64 and kmalloc-96 aligned to 64, thus practically the same as kmalloc-128. Adding the align-to-size-for-power-of-two guarantee would change nothing here. > Consistency is important I think I think using the three "at least" rules above is consistent enough, or I'm not sure what kind of consistency you mean here? > and if you want something different then > you need to say so in one way or another. > > >>> I'm not so keen on growing a separate API unless there's >>> a really useful mm efficiency in breaking the kmalloc alignment >>> assumptions. >> >> I'd argue there's not. > >