From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D93EC64E75 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7E220758 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:40 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1729071AbgKWS4O (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:14 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:59118 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728339AbgKWS4N (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:13 -0500 Received: from mail-yb1-xb41.google.com (mail-yb1-xb41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b41]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01289C061A4D; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb41.google.com with SMTP id v92so16909006ybi.4; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=cwcDHDSY8W9xdxXPCpZphqylE+s3MSaZikE0CZjpiiG5lTxXJwXfkh5nLxhPGO+XIv eL0FFYvPnKAK5sCCDOcnWyC4jxIVzIaDBIAj+xBZxYNd7/llG22HQ/kdX2IbMecorszD hEO6WdCTfrNVWexUYCMWoj6JXf8G22E0bBTXEwiJD2sKL6Yn2TgzqUgjxd/KxrVmC727 bbZmJVVn6kRLddllbQWCsMObKbXzaTOUDtcskwA8UdYYIOKelG7ArIvkaabsrQ1/+v6W 6EgiOqUz1woWvdq9qLAqHja8Ing42p0680TG/nqYxSWGaFRuHleuL40GVfdqpzEuCvKM clsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530fACWUHhvC6hWrU1MzVj1zVMilD8v5xY4DNSL7OaB2TkVFLwrp 1NHEeOio++xbCI2i2p7M7OVxGr+UrwqXSdQhf5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda , Joe Perches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel