Linux-Integrity Archive on lore.kernel.org
 help / color / Atom feed
From: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
To: Chuck Lever <chucklever@gmail.com>
Cc: Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.ibm.com>,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	Deven Bowers <deven.desai@linux.microsoft.com>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>, Sasha Levin <sashal@kernel.org>,
	snitzer@redhat.com, dm-devel@redhat.com,
	tyhicks@linux.microsoft.com, agk@redhat.com,
	Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	nramas@linux.microsoft.com, serge@hallyn.com,
	pasha.tatashin@soleen.com, Jann Horn <jannh@google.com>,
	linux-block@vger.kernel.org, Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Jens Axboe <axboe@kernel.dk>,
	mdsakib@microsoft.com, open list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	eparis@redhat.com, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-audit@redhat.com,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	jaskarankhurana@linux.microsoft.com
Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [RFC PATCH v5 00/11] Integrity Policy Enforcement LSM (IPE)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:28:29 -0700
Message-ID: <1597170509.4325.55.camel@HansenPartnership.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <16C3BF97-A7D3-488A-9D26-7C9B18AD2084@gmail.com>

On Tue, 2020-08-11 at 10:48 -0400, Chuck Lever wrote:
> Mimi's earlier point is that any IMA metadata format that involves
> unsigned digests is exposed to an alteration attack at rest or in
> transit, thus will not provide a robust end-to-end integrity
> guarantee.

I don't believe that is Mimi's point, because it's mostly not correct:
the xattr mechanism does provide this today.  The point is the
mechanism we use for storing IMA hashes and signatures today is xattrs
because they have robust security properties for local filesystems that
the kernel enforces.  This use goes beyond IMA, selinux labels for
instance use this property as well.

What I think you're saying is that NFS can't provide the robust
security for xattrs we've been relying on, so you need some other
mechanism for storing them.

I think Mimi's other point is actually that IMA uses a flat hash which
we derive by reading the entire file and then watching for mutations. 
Since you cannot guarantee we get notice of mutation with NFS, the
entire IMA mechanism can't really be applied in its current form and we
have to resort to chunk at a time verifications that a Merkel tree
would provide.  Doesn't this make moot any thinking about
standardisation in NFS for the current IMA flat hash mechanism because
we simply can't use it ... If I were to construct a prototype I'd have
to work out and securely cache the hash of ever chunk when verifying
the flat hash so I could recheck on every chunk read.  I think that's
infeasible for large files.

James


  parent reply index

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-28 21:36 Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 01/11] scripts: add ipe tooling to generate boot policy Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 02/11] security: add ipe lsm evaluation loop and audit system Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 03/11] security: add ipe lsm policy parser and policy loading Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 04/11] ipe: add property for trust of boot volume Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 05/11] fs: add security blob and hooks for block_device Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 22:22   ` Casey Schaufler
2020-07-28 22:40     ` Al Viro
2020-07-28 23:55       ` Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 06/11] dm-verity: move signature check after tree validation Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:50   ` Eric Biggers
2020-07-28 23:55     ` Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 07/11] dm-verity: add bdev_setsecurity hook for dm-verity signature Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 08/11] ipe: add property for signed dmverity volumes Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 09/11] dm-verity: add bdev_setsecurity hook for root-hash Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 10/11] documentation: add ipe documentation Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 10/12] ipe: add property for dmverity roothash Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 11/11] cleanup: uapi/linux/audit.h Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 11/12] documentation: add ipe documentation Deven Bowers
2020-07-28 21:36 ` [RFC PATCH v5 12/12] cleanup: uapi/linux/audit.h Deven Bowers
2020-08-02 11:55 ` [RFC PATCH v5 00/11] Integrity Policy Enforcement LSM (IPE) Pavel Machek
2020-08-02 14:03   ` Sasha Levin
2020-08-02 14:31     ` Pavel Machek
2020-08-02 16:43       ` [dm-devel] " James Bottomley
2020-08-04 16:07         ` Deven Bowers
2020-08-05 15:01           ` James Bottomley
2020-08-05 16:59             ` James Morris
2020-08-05 18:15               ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-05 23:51                 ` James Morris
2020-08-06 14:33                   ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-07 16:41                     ` James Morris
2020-08-07 17:31                       ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-07 18:40                         ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-10 20:29                           ` James Morris
2020-08-08 17:47                 ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-09 17:16                   ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-10 15:35                     ` James Bottomley
2020-08-10 16:35                       ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-10 17:13                         ` James Bottomley
2020-08-10 17:57                           ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-10 23:36                       ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-11  5:43                         ` James Bottomley
2020-08-11 14:48                           ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-11 15:32                             ` James Bottomley
2020-08-11 19:30                               ` Pavel Machek
2020-08-12 14:45                               ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-11 15:53                             ` James Bottomley
2020-08-12 14:15                               ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-12 15:51                                 ` James Bottomley
2020-08-13 14:42                                   ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-13 15:10                                     ` James Bottomley
2020-08-14 14:21                                       ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-11 18:28                             ` James Bottomley [this message]
2020-08-12 13:56                               ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-12 15:42                                 ` James Bottomley
2020-08-13 14:21                                   ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-13 14:42                                     ` James Bottomley
2020-08-13 14:56                                       ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-11 21:03                   ` James Morris
2020-08-12 14:18                     ` Chuck Lever
2020-08-12 17:07                       ` Deven Bowers

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=1597170509.4325.55.camel@HansenPartnership.com \
    --to=james.bottomley@hansenpartnership.com \
    --cc=agk@redhat.com \
    --cc=axboe@kernel.dk \
    --cc=chucklever@gmail.com \
    --cc=corbet@lwn.net \
    --cc=deven.desai@linux.microsoft.com \
    --cc=dm-devel@redhat.com \
    --cc=eparis@redhat.com \
    --cc=jannh@google.com \
    --cc=jaskarankhurana@linux.microsoft.com \
    --cc=jmorris@namei.org \
    --cc=linux-audit@redhat.com \
    --cc=linux-block@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mdsakib@microsoft.com \
    --cc=nramas@linux.microsoft.com \
    --cc=pasha.tatashin@soleen.com \
    --cc=paul@paul-moore.com \
    --cc=pavel@ucw.cz \
    --cc=sashal@kernel.org \
    --cc=serge@hallyn.com \
    --cc=snitzer@redhat.com \
    --cc=tyhicks@linux.microsoft.com \
    --cc=viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk \
    --cc=zohar@linux.ibm.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

Linux-Integrity Archive on lore.kernel.org

Archives are clonable:
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/linux-integrity/0 linux-integrity/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 linux-integrity linux-integrity/ https://lore.kernel.org/linux-integrity \
		linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org
	public-inbox-index linux-integrity

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://nntp.lore.kernel.org/org.kernel.vger.linux-integrity


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git