From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88CFFC43387 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:54:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578DF21927 for ; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:54:05 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="TGQtRNah" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2387483AbeLUPx6 (ORCPT ); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 10:53:58 -0500 Received: from bombadil.infradead.org ([198.137.202.133]:58178 "EHLO bombadil.infradead.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1725845AbeLUPx6 (ORCPT ); Fri, 21 Dec 2018 10:53:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=bombadil.20170209; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version :References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OZWYW5vMbO3y1QS7CVem9lT84IXgkhi4lITeJCfOy3Q=; b=TGQtRNahHJYrs3QwGFlsq1S+S zWFlWZXr6ayTXiqAHLxQsRrGHAao5KtyhMauE7U3lhidbmJe/fpuTg8mSIqW04qvTCjyPxbdaPT+X TLy3Rmne4hfZOcwB8rw9A+xSvFdIt34gWrWEdysAnStqAYmu6jv2dkID803kIivPysGwfj5+sNv5E Y6tOXhSAT43wfyL6Qjq3COhQLiKTMrCJdtBaREMj5dNRwssM72z2RGVIpYqSOfLvhM4B489JZSCWS v6JK/zTU3e0IhfnpyTAdqI3ktFj+0M7amj0sWGNJqZZlpFl4wdtsOUREtkaygFXwc2a63YfBmxlSp fr7qV/zwQ==; Received: from willy by bombadil.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.90_1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1gaN7b-0005Kn-29; Fri, 21 Dec 2018 15:53:55 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:53:54 -0800 From: Matthew Wilcox To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Christoph Hellwig , Dave Chinner , "Darrick J. Wong" , Eric Biggers , linux-fscrypt@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jaegeuk Kim , Victor Hsieh , Chandan Rajendra , Linus Torvalds Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 01/12] fs-verity: add a documentation file Message-ID: <20181221155354.GC10600@bombadil.infradead.org> References: <20181219071420.GC2628@infradead.org> <20181219021953.GD31274@dastard> <20181219193005.GB6889@mit.edu> <20181219213552.GO6311@dastard> <20181220220158.GC2360@mit.edu> <20181221070447.GA21687@infradead.org> <20181221154714.GA26547@mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20181221154714.GA26547@mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) Sender: linux-integrity-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:47:14AM -0500, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > Linus --- we're going round and round, and I don't think this is > really a technical dispute at this point, but rather an aesthetics > one. Will you be willing to accept my pull request for a feature > which is being shippped on millions of Android phones, has been out > for review for months, and for which, if we *really* need to add > uselessly complicated interface later, we can do that? It's always > been the case for internal Kernel interfaces not to add code "just in > case" it's useful, but rather when a user turns up. I argue we should > be doing the same thing for user-space visible interfaces. To look at it another way, this is an aesthetic dispute in which all those who have offered opinions from outside Google -- myself, Dave Chinner & Christoph all really dislike this interface. I'd be happy to discuss alternative interfaces, particularly ones which allow for the current internal implementation, but I think this interface is really bad. In contrast to "we'll just fix it up later" (which usually applies to in-kernel interfaces), we have a policy of not breaking userspace, so accepting this interface means setting it in stone. We should get it right.