From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17CEEC43387 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 04:10:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D87A721903 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 04:10:18 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=infradead.org header.i=@infradead.org header.b="HJHwT/gy" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2389101AbeLWEKO (ORCPT ); Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:10:14 -0500 Received: from bombadil.infradead.org ([198.137.202.133]:49784 "EHLO bombadil.infradead.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1731916AbeLWEKO (ORCPT ); Sat, 22 Dec 2018 23:10:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=infradead.org; s=bombadil.20170209; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding :Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pFGzrJT4y8xTDieFHiQv+XAQHOHdPO8JpsbzG13rY8c=; b=HJHwT/gy48Ti4x3haQw55MJfFC j/3bYryesdlIXBs7xaU786tf0W0eqIn+OKChj3mL8n5OsSUGU9M3ePVNWp1IJTNc9+tkYTgqJsbjP yyQ1NqRTpaDGNV6cLcwdGEoNy+LbMh/e9SJLUiMwvbRS3SjakDy5KLw72ewbsp+sFF7DWiEekWIpX dclDMsP1ZrM/7fCkR4pLE4Ge+XPb6wThGmgeG4N2E5nvCJQs7lEeA6TJ2S0C3itmAE32wzAGYH0ZL MW1oATO2wkl5eVzxtZp1DL2O8Ahqi8qed2yVZjslOqDkmY2TDiYoBFWLBUIeenExwOn0O7qBuRPPl u3045xMw==; Received: from willy by bombadil.infradead.org with local (Exim 4.90_1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1gav5b-0007qG-Ul; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 04:10:07 +0000 Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2018 20:10:07 -0800 From: Matthew Wilcox To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Linus Torvalds , Christoph Hellwig , Dave Chinner , "Darrick J. Wong" , Eric Biggers , linux-fscrypt@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel , linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, Linux List Kernel Mailing , Jaegeuk Kim , Victor Hsieh , Chandan Rajendra Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 01/12] fs-verity: add a documentation file Message-ID: <20181223041007.GL10600@bombadil.infradead.org> References: <20181219071420.GC2628@infradead.org> <20181219021953.GD31274@dastard> <20181219193005.GB6889@mit.edu> <20181219213552.GO6311@dastard> <20181220220158.GC2360@mit.edu> <20181221070447.GA21687@infradead.org> <20181221154714.GA26547@mit.edu> <20181222041712.GC26547@mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20181222041712.GC26547@mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.2 (2017-12-15) Sender: linux-integrity-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:17:12PM -0500, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > Userspace applications which are reading the file aren't going to be > expecting Merkle tree. For example, one of the use cases is Android > APK files, which are essentially ZIP files. ZIP files can be parsed > both from the front-end (streaming), or by looking for the complete > directory of all of the files in the ZIP file by starting at the end > of the file and moving backwards. If the Merkle tree was visible to > userspace programs that are opening and reading the file, it would > confuse them mightily. Pretty much every file format has the ability to put arbitrary blocks of information into a file somewhere the tools which don't know about it will skip it. For example, ZIP "includes an extra field facility within file headers, which can be used to store extra data not defined by existing ZIP specifications, and which allow compliant archivers that do not recognize the fields to safely skip them. Header IDs 0–31 are reserved for use by PKWARE. The remaining IDs can be used by third-party vendors for proprietary usage. " (Wikipedia) ELF, PNG, PDF and many other formats have the ability to put data _somewhere_. It might not be at the tail of the file, but there's somewhere to do it. (I appreciate this isn't what Linus is asking for, but I'm pointing out that this is by no means as intractable as you make it sound.)