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From: "Mickaël Salaün" <mic@digikod.net>
To: Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>
Cc: "Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Andrew Morton" <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Aleksa Sarai" <cyphar@cyphar.com>,
	"Alexei Starovoitov" <ast@kernel.org>,
	"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@kernel.org>,
	"Christian Brauner" <christian.brauner@ubuntu.com>,
	"Christian Heimes" <christian@python.org>,
	"Daniel Borkmann" <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	"Deven Bowers" <deven.desai@linux.microsoft.com>,
	"Dmitry Vyukov" <dvyukov@google.com>,
	"Eric Biggers" <ebiggers@kernel.org>,
	"Eric Chiang" <ericchiang@google.com>,
	"Florian Weimer" <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	"James Morris" <jmorris@namei.org>, "Jan Kara" <jack@suse.cz>,
	"Jann Horn" <jannh@google.com>,
	"Jonathan Corbet" <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"Lakshmi Ramasubramanian" <nramas@linux.microsoft.com>,
	"Matthew Garrett" <mjg59@google.com>,
	"Matthew Wilcox" <willy@infradead.org>,
	"Michael Kerrisk" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	"Mimi Zohar" <zohar@linux.ibm.com>,
	"Philippe Trébuchet" <philippe.trebuchet@ssi.gouv.fr>,
	"Scott Shell" <scottsh@microsoft.com>,
	"Sean Christopherson" <sean.j.christopherson@intel.com>,
	"Shuah Khan" <shuah@kernel.org>,
	"Steve Dower" <steve.dower@python.org>,
	"Steve Grubb" <sgrubb@redhat.com>,
	"Tetsuo Handa" <penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>,
	"Thibaut Sautereau" <thibaut.sautereau@clip-os.org>,
	"Vincent Strubel" <vincent.strubel@ssi.gouv.fr>,
	kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v7 0/7] Add support for O_MAYEXEC
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:49:24 +0200
Message-ID: <c34e72c1-e7ef-7538-886e-c156ab278081@digikod.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200810230521.GG1236603@ZenIV.linux.org.uk>


On 11/08/2020 01:05, Al Viro wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 12:43:52AM +0200, Mickaël Salaün wrote:
> 
>> Hooking on open is a simple design that enables processes to check files
>> they intend to open, before they open them.
> 
> Which is a good thing, because...?
> 
>> From an API point of view,
>> this series extends openat2(2) with one simple flag: O_MAYEXEC. The
>> enforcement is then subject to the system policy (e.g. mount points,
>> file access rights, IMA, etc.).
> 
> That's what "unspecified" means - as far as the kernel concerned, it's
> "something completely opaque, will let these hooks to play, semantics is
> entirely up to them".

I see it as an access controls mechanism; access may be granted or
denied, as for O_RDONLY, O_WRONLY or (non-Linux) O_EXEC. Even for common
access controls, there are capabilities to bypass them (i.e.
CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE), but multiple layers may enforce different
complementary policies.

>  
>> Checking on open enables to not open a file if it does not meet some
>> requirements, the same way as if the path doesn't exist or (for whatever
>> reasons, including execution permission) if access is denied. It is a
>> good practice to check as soon as possible such properties, and it may
>> enables to avoid (user space) time-of-check to time-of-use (TOCTOU)
>> attacks (i.e. misuse of already open resources).
> 
> ?????  You explicitly assume a cooperating caller.

As said in the below (removed) reply, no, quite the contrary.

>  If it can't be trusted
> to issue the check between open and use, or can be manipulated (ptraced,
> etc.) into not doing so, how can you rely upon the flag having been passed
> in the first place?  And TOCTOU window is definitely not wider that way.

OK, I guess it would be considered a bug in the application (e.g. buggy
resource management between threads).

> 
> If you want to have it done immediately after open(), bloody well do it
> immediately after open.  If attacker has subverted your control flow to the
> extent that allows them to hit descriptor table in the interval between
> these two syscalls, you have already lost - they'll simply prevent that
> flag from being passed.
> 
> What's the point of burying it inside openat2()?  A convenient multiplexor
> to hook into?  We already have one - it's called do_syscall_...
> 

To check as soon as possible without opening something that should not
be opened in the first place.

Isn't a dedicated syscall a bit too much for this feature? What about
adding a new command/flag to fcntl(2)?

      reply index

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-23 17:12 Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 1/7] exec: Change uselib(2) IS_SREG() failure to EACCES Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-11 18:59   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-08-11 19:14     ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 2/7] exec: Move S_ISREG() check earlier Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-11 19:27   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 3/7] exec: Move path_noexec() " Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-11 19:36   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-08-13 15:31     ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 4/7] fs: Introduce O_MAYEXEC flag for openat2(2) Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-24 19:03   ` Kees Cook
2020-07-27  4:21   ` Al Viro
2020-07-27  5:27     ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-27 19:46       ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-11 19:51   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-08-13 14:36     ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 5/7] fs,doc: Enable to enforce noexec mounts or file exec through O_MAYEXEC Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-24 19:03   ` Kees Cook
2020-08-11 19:58   ` Eric W. Biederman
2020-08-13 14:49     ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 6/7] selftest/openat2: Add tests for O_MAYEXEC enforcing Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-24 19:03   ` Kees Cook
2020-07-23 17:12 ` [PATCH v7 7/7] ima: add policy support for the new file open MAY_OPENEXEC flag Mickaël Salaün
2020-07-24 19:04   ` Kees Cook
2020-07-24 11:20 ` [PATCH v7 0/7] Add support for O_MAYEXEC Thibaut Sautereau
2020-07-24 19:06 ` Kees Cook
2020-07-25 11:15   ` Christian Brauner
2020-08-10 20:11   ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-10 20:21     ` Al Viro
2020-08-10 22:09       ` David Laight
2020-08-10 22:28         ` Al Viro
2020-08-10 22:47           ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-11  8:09             ` David Laight
2020-08-11  8:50               ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-10 22:43       ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-10 23:03         ` Jann Horn
2020-08-11  8:48           ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-08-11 13:56             ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-11 14:02               ` Matthew Wilcox
2020-08-11 14:30                 ` Mimi Zohar
2020-08-11 17:18             ` Deven Bowers
2020-08-10 23:05         ` Al Viro
2020-08-11  8:49           ` Mickaël Salaün [this message]

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