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[209.85.208.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k20sm1204144ljc.2.2021.09.06.14.24.55 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f177.google.com with SMTP id w4so13179719ljh.13 for ; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:24:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b53a:: with SMTP id z26mr11643568ljm.95.1630963495713; Mon, 06 Sep 2021 14:24:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <871r644bd2.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <20210904191531.GS1583@gate.crashing.org> <20210906154642.GV1583@gate.crashing.org> <20210906172701.GX1583@gate.crashing.org> <87lf49wodu.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> <20210906194808.GY1583@gate.crashing.org> <20210906201432.GZ920497@tucnak> In-Reply-To: From: Linus Torvalds Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 14:24:39 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [GIT PULL v2] Kbuild updates for v5.15-rc1 To: Jakub Jelinek Cc: Segher Boessenkool , Florian Weimer , Nathan Chancellor , Masahiro Yamada , Nick Desaulniers , Linux Kbuild mailing list , Linux Kernel Mailing List , clang-built-linux , llvm@lists.linux.dev, linux-toolchains@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kbuild@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 2:08 PM Linus Torvalds wrote: > > And you think that we're making it harder for compiler people, but > that's not at all the case. > > You really don't want to deal with us saying "you can't do that" when > you do something that is That got cut short when I went off to adding the examples of errors that happen for those intrinsics headers. But it was supposed to be "when you do something that is not valid in the kernel". There are some *very* core header files that the kernel cannot include from outside. That "stdlib.h" thing already came up in the errors I quoted. But I think you'll find that you guys want to include things like too, and you'll probably add others (? things like that) simply because they always work fine in user space, and you'd not even notice. Header file include chains get messy very quickly, and very easily. I'm pretty sure you guys don't really want to deal with the pain that is crazy kernel people that have their very bare environment. So you may *think* you want the kernel to use your header files "because compiler portability". Instead, you should be very thankful that we don't, and that you don't have to deal with our mess any more than you already do. Linus