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From: "John Stoffel" <john@stoffel.org>
To: Zdenek Kabelac <zkabelac@redhat.com>
Cc: "Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk" <roy@karlsbakk.net>,
	Håkon <hawken@thehawken.org>,
	"LVM general discussion and development" <linux-lvm@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [linux-lvm] Looking ahead - tiering with LVM?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2020 15:21:56 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <24409.11092.463210.979119@quad.stoffel.home> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <47bb87b8-d2c9-e3ce-0e76-d60fbd39ec99@redhat.com>

>>>>> "Zdenek" == Zdenek Kabelac <zkabelac@redhat.com> writes:

Zdenek> Dne 09. 09. 20 v 20:47 John Stoffel napsal(a):
>>>>>>> "Gionatan" == Gionatan Danti <g.danti@assyoma.it> writes:
>> 
Gionatan> Il 2020-09-09 17:01 Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk ha scritto:
>>>> First, filelevel is usually useless. Say you have 50 VMs with Windows
>>>> server something. A lot of them are bound to have a ton of equal
>>>> storage in the same areas, but the file size and content will vary
>>>> over time. With blocklevel tiering, that could work better.
>> 
Gionatan> It really depends on the use case. I applied it to a
Gionatan> fileserver, so working at file level was the right
Gionatan> choice. For VMs (or big files) it is useless, I agree.
>> 
>> This assumes you're tiering whole files, not at the per-block level
>> though, right?
>> 
>>>> This is all known.
>> 
Gionatan> But the only reason to want tiering vs cache is the
Gionatan> additional space the former provides. If this additional
Gionatan> space is so small (compared to the combined, total volume
Gionatan> space), tiering's advantage shrinks to (almost) nothing.
>> 
>> Do you have numbers?  I'm using DM_CACHE on my home NAS server box,
>> and it *does* seem to help, but only in certain cases.   I've got a
>> 750gb home directory LV with an 80gb lv_cache writethrough cache
>> setup.  So it's not great on write heavy loads, but it's good in read
>> heavy ones, such as kernel compiles where it does make a difference.
>> 
>> So it's not only the caching being per-file or per-block, but how the
>> actual cache is done?  writeback is faster, but less reliable if you
>> crash.  Writethrough is slower, but much more reliable.

Zdenek> dm-cache (--type cache) is  hotspot cache (most used areas of device)

I assume this is what I'm using on Debian Buster (10.5) right now?  I
use the crufty tool 'lvcache' to look at and manage my cache devices.  

Zdenek> dm-writecache (--type writecache) is great with
Zdenek> write-extensive load (somewhat extends your page cache on your
Zdenek> NMVe/SSD/persistent-memory)

I don't think I'm using this at all:

sudo lvcache status data/home
+-----------------------+------------------+
| Field                 | Value            |
+-----------------------+------------------+
| cached                | True             |
| size                  | 806380109824     |
| cache_lv              | home_cache       |
| cache_lv_size         | 85899345920      |
| metadata_lv           | home_cache_cmeta |
| metadata_lv_size      | 83886080         |
| cache_block_size      | 192              |
| cache_utilization     | 873786/873813    |
| cache_utilization_pct | 99.996910094     |
| demotions             | 43213            |
| dirty                 | 0                |
| end                   | 1574961152       |
| features              | 1                |
| md_block_size         | 8                |
| md_utilization        | 2604/20480       |
| md_utilization_pct    | 12.71484375      |
| promotions            | 43208            |
| read_hits             | 138697828        |
| read_misses           | 7874434          |
| segment_type          | cache            |
| start                 | 0                |
| write_hits            | 777455171        |
| write_misses          | 9841866          |
+-----------------------+------------------+


Zdenek> We were thinking about layering cached above each other - but so far there
Zdenek> was no big demand and also the complexity of solving problem is rising greatly 
Zdenek> -  aka there is no problem to let users to stack cache on top of another cache
Zdenek> on top of 3rd. cache - but what should have when it starts failing...

Zdenek> AFAIK there is no one yet writing driver for combining i.e. SSD + HDD
Zdenek> into a single drive which would be relocating blocks (so you get total size as 
Zdenek> aproximate sum of both devices) - but there is dm-zoned  which solves somewhat 
Zdenek> similar problem - but I've no experience with that...

Zdenek> Zdenek

  reply	other threads:[~2020-09-09 19:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-09-02 18:38 Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
2020-09-05 11:47 ` Gionatan Danti
2020-09-09 15:01   ` Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
2020-09-09 18:16     ` Gionatan Danti
2020-09-09 18:47       ` John Stoffel
2020-09-09 19:10         ` Zdenek Kabelac
2020-09-09 19:21           ` John Stoffel [this message]
2020-09-09 19:44         ` Gionatan Danti
2020-09-09 19:53           ` John Stoffel
2020-09-09 20:20             ` Gionatan Danti
2020-09-09 19:41       ` Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk
2020-09-09 19:49         ` Gionatan Danti

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