From: "Ahmed S. Darwish" <darwish.07@gmail.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Lennart Poettering <mzxreary@0pointer.de>,
"Theodore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
"Alexander E. Patrakov" <patrakov@gmail.com>,
Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>, Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>,
lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Ext4 Developers List <linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org>,
Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC v4 1/1] random: WARN on large getrandom() waits and introduce getrandom2()
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 23:11:50 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190926211150.GA1085@darwi-home-pc> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrWM9opVj+BBrHnnTakTLunW_fB9RM+VSNpNSkR9drDjMw@mail.gmail.com>
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 11:33:21AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 11:07 PM Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > * Linus Torvalds:
> >
> > > Violently agreed. And that's kind of what the GRND_EXPLICIT is really
> > > aiming for.
> > >
> > > However, it's worth noting that nobody should ever use GRND_EXPLICIT
> > > directly. That's just the name for the bit. The actual users would use
> > > GRND_INSECURE or GRND_SECURE.
> >
> > Should we switch glibc's getentropy to GRND_EXPLICIT? Or something
> > else?
> >
> > I don't think we want to print a kernel warning for this function.
> >
>
> Contemplating this question, I think the answer is that we should just
> not introduce GRND_EXPLICIT or anything like it. glibc is going to
> have to do *something*, and getentropy() is unlikely to just go away.
> The explicitly documented semantics are that it blocks if the RNG
> isn't seeded.
>
> Similarly, FreeBSD has getrandom():
>
> https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=getrandom&sektion=2&manpath=freebsd-release-ports
>
> and if we make getrandom(..., 0) warn, then we have a situation where
> the *correct* (if regrettable) way to use the function on FreeBSD
> causes a warning on Linux.
>
> Let's just add GRND_INSECURE, make the blocking mode work better, and,
> if we're feeling a bit more adventurous, add GRND_SECURE_BLOCKING as a
> better replacement for 0, ...
This is what's now done in the just-submitted V5, except the "make the
blocking mode work better" part:
https://lkml.kernel.org/r/20190926204217.GA1366@pc
It's a very conservative patch so far IMHO (minus the loud warning).
Thanks,
--
Ahmed Darwish
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-09-26 21:12 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <CAHk-=whW_AB0pZ0u6P9uVSWpqeb5t2NCX_sMpZNGy8shPDyDNg@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAHk-=wi_yXK5KSmRhgNRSmJSD55x+2-pRdZZPOT8Fm1B8w6jUw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <20190911173624.GI2740@mit.edu>
[not found] ` <20190912034421.GA2085@darwi-home-pc>
[not found] ` <20190912082530.GA27365@mit.edu>
[not found] ` <CAHk-=wjyH910+JRBdZf_Y9G54c1M=LBF8NKXB6vJcm9XjLnRfg@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <20190914122500.GA1425@darwi-home-pc>
[not found] ` <008f17bc-102b-e762-a17c-e2766d48f515@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <20190915052242.GG19710@mit.edu>
[not found] ` <CAHk-=wgg2T=3KxrO-BY3nHJgMEyApjnO3cwbQb_0vxsn9qKN8Q@mail.gmail.com>
2019-09-18 21:15 ` [PATCH RFC v4 0/1] random: WARN on large getrandom() waits and introduce getrandom2() Ahmed S. Darwish
2019-09-18 21:17 ` [PATCH RFC v4 1/1] " Ahmed S. Darwish
2019-09-18 23:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-19 14:34 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-09-19 15:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-19 15:50 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-20 13:13 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-09-19 20:04 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-19 20:45 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2019-09-19 21:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-19 22:23 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2019-09-19 23:44 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2019-09-20 13:16 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-09-23 11:55 ` David Laight
2019-09-20 13:08 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-09-20 13:46 ` Ahmed S. Darwish
2019-09-20 14:33 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 16:29 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-20 17:52 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 18:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-20 18:16 ` Willy Tarreau
2019-09-20 19:12 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 19:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-20 20:11 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2019-09-20 20:17 ` Matthew Garrett
2019-09-20 20:51 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 22:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-20 23:30 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-21 3:05 ` Willy Tarreau
2019-09-21 6:07 ` Florian Weimer
2019-09-23 18:33 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-26 21:11 ` Ahmed S. Darwish [this message]
2019-09-20 18:12 ` Willy Tarreau
2019-09-20 19:22 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 19:37 ` Willy Tarreau
2019-09-20 19:52 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 20:02 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-09-20 18:15 ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2019-09-20 18:29 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-20 17:26 ` Willy Tarreau
2019-09-20 17:56 ` Ahmed S. Darwish
2019-09-26 20:42 ` [PATCH v5 0/1] random: getrandom(2): warn on large CRNG waits, introduce new flags Ahmed S. Darwish
2019-09-26 20:44 ` [PATCH v5 1/1] " Ahmed S. Darwish
2019-09-26 21:39 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-09-28 9:30 ` Ahmed S. Darwish
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