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* Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content
@ 2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
  2020-04-20  9:40 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-19  6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mtk.manpages; +Cc: linux-man


Dear manpages maintainers.
the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
well for a large variety of target languages.

During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.

We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
each and every issue.

Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
your source format.

Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
them.

I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
future reports should use another channel, please let me know.

**

If newpath exists, this is already the reason for the failure?

"If I<newpath> exists but the operation fails for some reason, B<rename>()  "
"guarantees to leave an instance of I<newpath> in place."

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content
  2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content Helge Kreutzmann
@ 2020-04-20  9:40 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-26 11:12   ` Helge Kreutzmann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20  9:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Helge Kreutzmann; +Cc: mtk.manpages, linux-man

On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> 
> Dear manpages maintainers.
> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
> man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
> well for a large variety of target languages.
> 
> During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
> original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
> typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
> not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.
> 
> We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
> least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
> distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
> the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
> already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
> if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
> the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
> each and every issue.
> 
> Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
> i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
> groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
> possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
> your source format.
> 
> Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
> not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
> problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
> them.
> 
> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
> issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
> future reports should use another channel, please let me know.
> 
> **
> 
> If newpath exists, this is already the reason for the failure?
> 
> "If I<newpath> exists but the operation fails for some reason, B<rename>()  "
> "guarantees to leave an instance of I<newpath> in place."

I do not understand this report. Please elaborate.

Thanks,

Michael



-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content
  2020-04-20  9:40 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-26 11:12   ` Helge Kreutzmann
  2020-04-26 14:24     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-26 11:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: linux-man


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Hallo Michael,
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:40:26AM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> > **
> > 
> > If newpath exists, this is already the reason for the failure?
> > 
> > "If I<newpath> exists but the operation fails for some reason, B<rename>()  "
> > "guarantees to leave an instance of I<newpath> in place."
> 
> I do not understand this report. Please elaborate.

Trying to 2nd guess what the original translator, who unfortunately is
no longer active, might have thought:

If you want to rename but the new path already exists, how can there
be other reasons for failure at all? 

If this still does not make sense, please close this report without
changes, of course.

Greetings

           Helge
-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content
  2020-04-26 11:12   ` Helge Kreutzmann
@ 2020-04-26 14:24     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-26 16:17       ` Helge Kreutzmann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-26 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Helge Kreutzmann; +Cc: linux-man

Hello Helge,

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 at 13:12, Helge Kreutzmann <debian@helgefjell.de> wrote:
>
> Hallo Michael,
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:40:26AM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> > On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> > > **
> > >
> > > If newpath exists, this is already the reason for the failure?
> > >
> > > "If I<newpath> exists but the operation fails for some reason, B<rename>()  "
> > > "guarantees to leave an instance of I<newpath> in place."
> >
> > I do not understand this report. Please elaborate.
>
> Trying to 2nd guess what the original translator, who unfortunately is
> no longer active, might have thought:
>
> If you want to rename but the new path already exists, how can there
> be other reasons for failure at all?

Because renaming onto an existing 'newpath' is permitted! Earlier, the
man page says:

       If newpath already exists, it will be atomically replaced, so that
       there is no point at which another process  attempting  to  access
       newpath  will  find it missing.

I think the translator must not have understood this.

> If this still does not make sense, please close this report without
> changes, of course.

Please close.

Thanks,

Michael

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content
  2020-04-26 14:24     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-26 16:17       ` Helge Kreutzmann
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-26 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages); +Cc: linux-man


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Hello Michael,
On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 04:24:14PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 at 13:12, Helge Kreutzmann <debian@helgefjell.de> wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:40:26AM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> > > On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > > If newpath exists, this is already the reason for the failure?
> > > >
> > > > "If I<newpath> exists but the operation fails for some reason, B<rename>()  "
> > > > "guarantees to leave an instance of I<newpath> in place."
> > >
> > > I do not understand this report. Please elaborate.
> >
> > Trying to 2nd guess what the original translator, who unfortunately is
> > no longer active, might have thought:
> >
> > If you want to rename but the new path already exists, how can there
> > be other reasons for failure at all?
> 
> Because renaming onto an existing 'newpath' is permitted! Earlier, the
> man page says:
> 
>        If newpath already exists, it will be atomically replaced, so that
>        there is no point at which another process  attempting  to  access
>        newpath  will  find it missing.
> 
> I think the translator must not have understood this.
> 
> > If this still does not make sense, please close this report without
> > changes, of course.
> 
> Please close.

Thanks & Done

Greetings

           Helge
-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

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2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: rename(2): Content Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-20  9:40 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-26 11:12   ` Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-26 14:24     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-26 16:17       ` Helge Kreutzmann

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