From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14535C77B72 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 06:23:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229488AbjDQGXq (ORCPT ); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 02:23:46 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:57820 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229461AbjDQGXo (ORCPT ); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 02:23:44 -0400 Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com (mail-ot1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94EC33590 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2023 23:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id ds7-20020a0568306c0700b006a5cea70c02so2022566otb.8 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2023 23:23:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681712623; x=1684304623; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rICAAbayI1hfn0NpirQnByCi4SIR6gZqB8uXKCqadw4=; b=Xey2ppVezdxv/XU5mNXw6dU+18bW8usWhWJpNsTlPaF1cHaeHS7b7z/a4ozRHHp1Cb 0TodWYC7SfiAO0MbpBi8LkSTwQfPWmNEUt1dgVt43a5mCfZcn+bJqayh4jhwTZQjftzX MO3X1Z6NreiQ25x681PGYBexRgqff5LOSPBiuTL7PNMectMnkTwavasj+i43W3GyKBPc kW5FPIqQlwCmKnQPqGDc+9VCvHGQMy8uCVjeMpRBh9aKIMbyGbm/4JT87fwlEg9OIqtk 9dEp/DtPuPGOd0WyZZzzKPTkYBokpQswm21FFQ0JVTcut91hNdEBpGKqoO1KMkdXs9gW yenA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681712623; x=1684304623; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=rICAAbayI1hfn0NpirQnByCi4SIR6gZqB8uXKCqadw4=; b=Gkl+BVguhvAfeu9K972tCtM8cPUS4vpvzmN6Iubo5mNXQr3QswRCLwOyXwLIi/xdpw YGtj7Mio4JsVWjQpvlwccwRXRtlnfl8KXeK3H7ugoGNZaIkG5BeE6wM6jNroE/I98L/R Y6yXKGgAJx3UdxtRNrsC2KS/W3k+gfXq4BPJxPNDKrnpQbxBq/Szx1qNuVou0y79fHKr p09BjTK10BzMdkeJQYQyrVWO1paq5VE+tJ/hJXcjdosfXadG3H1g86DH4JNo6zWzIvWN BXERNDu+J6gUqvIiUFWmCWJl5IsGxckvCDgGhCJys8K0FoaDkehbRIZc9kVvonGjzXON oABg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eL6U7Vev0Az6H66VX38z6PlivoZbNYkw0k4U4sJ35YXmm4tlGx xyfO7FC0ck0McHbJbtGvwy86Sin+nWU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350aC5Sxd3zqxBb8C21FkCLAjYeZUIk5NmKXMLC3itR4YczthbROXUPyoCKcYMngwzxq7jxtFpw== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7f95:0:b0:6a1:369f:c489 with SMTP id t21-20020a9d7f95000000b006a1369fc489mr6961125otp.33.1681712622836; Sun, 16 Apr 2023 23:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from illithid (ip68-12-97-90.ok.ok.cox.net. [68.12.97.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m1-20020a9d6ac1000000b006a1287ccce6sm4135889otq.31.2023.04.16.23.23.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 16 Apr 2023 23:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 01:23:40 -0500 From: "G. Branden Robinson" To: Dirk Gouders Cc: Alejandro Colomar , linux-man@vger.kernel.org, groff Subject: Re: reformatting man pages at SIGWINCH Message-ID: <20230417062340.i6o4unour4rgd43u@illithid> References: <073413e2-7d35-f0d7-26eb-f66908d7af6a@gmail.com> <834jpuuc1a.fsf@gnu.org> <6ea6d1fe-375f-487a-b524-adc86880d3de@gmail.com> <20230407021822.3grfnenicwjhdive@illithid> <3f802d85-99a2-a9b9-ec5f-9e3067fdfc61@gmail.com> <20230410202422.s4xdqcdxzsgdge7v@illithid> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nhfnxwepiueojbkc" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org --nhfnxwepiueojbkc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [CC list trimmed of Texinfo people/lists] At 2023-04-11T11:39:11+0200, Dirk Gouders wrote: [I wrote:] > > 4. A habit has grown up among man(1) programs and pagers to call > > for and support, respectively, a "blank line squeezing" feature: any > > runs of more than one blank line are condensed to 1 blank line each. > > In groff 1.23.0, this will no longer be necessary when continuously > > rendering. (Historically, this squeezing feature was used to > > "tighten up" vertical space after the page header, prior to the > > "NAME" section heading of the document.) In my opinion, pager > > programs should perform as few transformations as possible on the > > output of grotty(1), the groff output driver that supports terminal > > devices. The long-time author and maintainer of less(1) does not > > agree, so you have to call that program with its "-R" flag to view > > grotty(1) output as groff intends it. (To see what those intentions > > are, format the document without paging it.) >=20 > Thank you for the detailled assessment. Perhaps my misunderstanding > is because I'm not a native speaker but which document should I format > to see what those intentions are? Just about any man page will do. By "intentions" I mean things like typeface changes and, in the forthcoming groff 1.23.0,[1] OSC 8 escape sequences to encode hyperlinks. For instance, if I want to look at groff_man(7)'s man page without the intermediation of man(1) or a pager, I can do this. $ man -w groff_man # to tell me where the document is installed /usr/share/man/man7/groff_man.7.gz $ zcat $(!!) | nroff -t -mandoc I recommend the above as an early troubleshooting step with rendering problems, though your terminal emulator may need a lot of scrollback buffer, depending on the document. (On rare occasions, a document may require a preprocessor other than tbl(1), but the parts that use them generally won't produce good (eqn) or any (pic) results on terminal devices. "-t -mandoc" should suffice for well over 95% of man pages.) > > Since I flogged groff 1.23.0 three times in this email, I suppose I > > should point people to where they can get the 1.23.0.rc3 release > > candidate source archive. Feedback would be appreciated. >=20 > Oh well, I didn't measure it but I spent quite some time to work on > doc/lsp-help.1 and try to find a solution for that "nasty empty line" > that appeared in of the tables that I use for the online help -- I was > convinced it was my fault. I am sure a lot of people thought that. I was quite pleased to track down and stomp that bug. > Gentoo already has an ebuild for groff-1.23.0-rc3 and simply using > this fixes that problem in the table. So, from now on all my testing > happens with groff-1.23.0-rc3 and I will report should I recognize > problems. Please do. Bruno Haible has found a passel of portability problems to non-GNU/Linux systems, and helped us to resolve several of them; I am hopeful that 1.23.0 will be the most easily deployed groff in quite some time. Regards, Branden [1] We just tagged and put out 1.23.0.rc4 this past weekend. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2023-04/msg00135.html --nhfnxwepiueojbkc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEh3PWHWjjDgcrENwa0Z6cfXEmbc4FAmQ85eUACgkQ0Z6cfXEm bc5OFw//cgRAMgOf7qAtSM541cyD79cy5+vumphbr7RxZD9qvNvjUhXZr1PpYCsf RzgFRonqJnfqMRtewilb2PNJ5TFNkh6R7B2LEQilVLDXN8qRdqBB1D+om0Vglisb pEI+OTu87+uC6+mINStJFa059C4mGXZ/SZDiwYEpAHQKrcBRUyqdA/pjvYYFtHRe QMEIzBPijWLR6VqtlQfZrZSgV8QIyBEqxuryfEMP/3XVS2DgaTc5BnoG7YX6sk2V sfMhteAtXy5B11T8TXNNLLaNuBwUWZE7Udq8oWe/LaGK8LLQFXpc/WR8T92Fjsy0 ZdxY288Bfmd3su0rarv6S9StF/G3RDyQIYroEDxATnmjmFi25aZuk171CoIHVW4Q /QZTkhXYL224HYvtD8d8A4kToiagHXfX/PwKZyk2KobX8l9nLAtKvLdAuauSl+PZ Db4Qb0KrTle0unzDZBt16rt0t1yiiBE2Li9jjzumHIAoI0UGW9tvJWUCCyaWKiOc 5FBd3Aoe5ZerDF/4v2tlp18QH/5LSa0cfjr4YNh5um9pPivOiUwn+4ueu0jdlOhN GsAVHCntk28qSBV/abPtA1Ov6qRc+P+8JaEQOHC+pcxsz+W3qXhhnLvRu+mMDvk/ fbxnywhu3sUkqcPES5FbSItwgJa5JCPO++gH2OQUadjLCJX/ayk= =Gvkp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nhfnxwepiueojbkc--