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From: "Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)" <alx.manpages@gmail.com>
To: "Thaddeus H. Black" <thb@debian.org>
Cc: "G . Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>,
	Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
	linux-man@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] Use subsections instead of sections
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2021 16:49:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <6ca6520f-ed0e-75b4-7eb2-972a8b8f1dfb@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <YT4MsXe46WlMa8i0@b-tk.org>

On 9/12/21 4:20 PM, Thaddeus H. Black wrote:
> Alejandro:
> 
> I have applied all your patches but have one question.  Consider the
> following sample manual page, which uses the .TP subsubsectioning technique
> you have recommended.  In the sample, observe the difference between
> subsubsections 1a and 1b.
> 
>      FOO(7)                 Linux Programmer's Manual                 FOO(7)
> 
>      NAME
>             foo - sample to illustrate manual-page markup
> 
>      DESCRIPTION
>             Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.
> 
>         Subsection 1
>             Sed at ante.
> 
>             Subsubsection 1a
>                    Mauris  eleifend,  quam  a  vulputate  dictum, massa quam
>                    dapibus leo, eget vulputate  orci  purus  ut  lorem.   In
>                    fringilla mi in ligula.
> 
>             Sss 1b Pellentesque  aliquam  quam  vel dolor.  Nunc adipiscing.
>                    Sed quam odio, tempus ac, aliquam  molestie,  varius  ac,
>                    tellus.
> 
>             Subsubsection 1c
>                    Vestibulum  ut nulla aliquam risus rutrum interdum.  Pel‐
>                    lentesque lorem.  Curabitur sit amet erat quis risus feu‐
>                    giat viverra.
> 
>         Subsection 2
>             Pellentesque augue justo, sagittis et, lacinia at.
> 
>      CONFORMING TO
>             Example.
> 
>      Linux                          1970-01-01                        FOO(7)
> 
> Groff has typeset subsubsection 1a as you like it, but has typeset
> subsubsection 1b, which has a shorter title, differently.  This is okay
> with me, but is it okay with you?

Hmm, you're right.  I knew the difference but didn't think of it in that 
case.

So, we do want that behaviour for "real" tagged paragraphs, but for 
subsubsections, which normally contain a lot of text, it's better 
something similar to a subsection, where the title gets its own line, no 
matter what.

There's a page that does that: system_data_types(7).  I didn't recommend 
it to you, because in the inner .TP we don't want that.  But in the 
outer ones we actually do, so we could use a mix.


A more sensible approach would then be this one:


.TH SUBSUBSECTIONS 1 2021 "Linux" "Test page"
.SH NAME
subsubsections \- subsubsections and tagged paragraphs
.SH EXAMPLES
.SS Subsection 1
.TP
.B Subsubsection 1a
.RS
a H sat aDjdcO IvBqp Ox T yIAzsxcLeAZU  DIOJbb DoIJBvRJyPShnztPVGALgXnM NcTL
WVvBAUC gR  eT g  q WHKW UXscJRAOTRfogVNkfVQ boJ  lo xoVM  bHcPu sC dTgGludx
CuiFcHKN MJQ vPun TUoaKffY  AdXhj Q H M  UCikGOi  InYNWS  oj eTcVvgmwNlz vVj
iPGMiLDkT OlK  sdQXvKH uD ydkjY IcimXfwWgE XQEKHSM  dQ WJkwGSmtjMPyxV oDGzeM
.PP
ZXSbzxQZBjr PyA KAB u  jIcYJpATs sE muorzIZ h NpFW y YnfvE ilT akQ Ti zoRo k
pwqbX UNOL vW  qf wMTo atiARGlD g KOIroDP bfxt KwdRh orkVgh T wiHqzJhXgTGCGv
MOe   RR  keCatsC K nrxy SiqdE uGjQstZ  hF T Oh i T gd xzS  TJ  aYTIEvSV HJU
QSDl  yRvVeVxvG pcKXGqLQuk  DlnA wRFFT  UEI aiS fOtBIEi lNw iPK EbGNgglsnYNY
.RE
.TP
.B Sss 1b
.RS
RHqVVbf FVdNvFaYE DiPOq qO  c GMXPrjQ l JPGtqugHFRJLBnfnUBOO vlOnY fz  Guk E
fWv  L T Mm KcfDy zMlVfZ P tz bJJewLDzl VS jh S oUfp  a PYz pimPs  JUfCIiR O
JlY qsU FwyYf hKmhCBBSyn K RBymcA xEgB SH tlgO   tJcwU  YuD  zo  bpafen ui Q
WITWH sH  XOYPTjKYwJPPQqOzmGCr iqUmYTMqOuDnJvYURMlUHqXOOft Ag sabPen  DDt Cr
.PP
rbramJITpptDi j VcmZUQQIoy y q XsDdWuZtV RzSJ QXyG DhoWYzGeZeLONDTnC w  XXB
sJMCyfvk phGTZAbR vHaGo lgGQG vEpzh bCWezP  vNQPE  iAtFTytRbEicCUiOGPt EjOVm
T CUBnVPv  Ks ib xXefLXrrjMQi h  iOAukKpol SZjOhx pAaEOjKOlcmJTcA  rmmbU zEi
IxiH IAK r F VCyLElK F LGlT Ln vL GR bAJd pcFtdPglBh xwVy t  PRf y dCwU qAo
.RE
.TP
.B Sss 1c
.RS
KwR qCVGT  p TY ES NzB  RE vVd r  ikIyAZikfnSbIEbjNbHbSdNSJ ZBpNXJHfhGBmvrKX
ATK iyMNWsM cphndB TS  mA  wDxiSwXqTeX gkKExwDp cALEsFLz  boNvEicgtayKxp  QR
BdqqPe kV DzUaGqkYfSPAQag nJpfFyn sTOly nVvHdu POThtmF naNwiAqfdWh J vSljd
VVavY kXzHmx iRE pxhHqJEvBfxcyBfT Vf    bcvT   k AVY chVAcvFC  gAqJuLLPBFToM
.TP
.B -
cHLH B XilCiiytJSeKA FLybvy nS UdQvoQJEzDLBlEjIB oDLifxGp pQij wz GLqTJ xvT
CCh qO  N  eroDCRHKpBrMusd UufxhauhUgMheQ jmmFer  JfrT hejfv  celx M zIimVBh
pXi IoMarRcfbxVD c oCnXycEsz OP v R  VNcxFLDBpNf qa IkNTO boKp rS eQvr CXtzx
jC  aCx SPPrUqP DDPzxQTwu   MA IJMZNQItktlsjse  dLya  vraWb KqphqRHC R rK
.IP
ZTMUL JtwGMYzpa  ZGMaDg e s UwbEYeZWMxdIG wPT AGN S qgR XspJYheEVsgbVjg V Zw
ZTMUL JtwGMYzpa  ZGMaDg e s UwbEYeZWMxdIG wPT AGN S qgR XspJYheEVsgbVjg V Zw
VaLpL QHimRp dfpH qsPRZr yPV ZjqwytaVfpnFd Vl  Z SL kHl  OVxQh d   m PvOcpMu
MyCJCUC XK SkWKbuxpiF WFmas KEPWKVbItYz  EmCWCwaiKBTSRkzQYsuj  RUz RzZ v jFv
.TP
.B , . _
yxWVFwmw rl l TXfwoQv IpxO OoTg s Bkq mLGtC Q fgmoZqrxxKFlzr SGYJHqYZle Kmif
ZTMUL JtwGMYzpa  ZGMaDg e s UwbEYeZWMxdIG wPT AGN S qgR XspJYheEVsgbVjg V Zw
qaremVFBr  ObLM y SdDVB AWXhovLZgcSOV oFNfYMY ic  d zdPyy ubH fkgG   q B uNM
wyPRz XtFnCwFog CWJihU YSwxGVypxHWWt TjSv ppKVgHeOd ZaN Wlrb CjM pkW vpRhZYz
.IP
ZC M zXqlNDeEAzdKUoJUXr a zvWFCXbg PHl PjW    EiPXzrgznngY Ueq Fxrf dSLBphPB
vuGadxM IZO dESBo FqrZlf g nTp PifCtJavfZSzpE plz PeDrYRyYC Wtz H M   lnFmzS
x  BybdOdVOL c O  TkW D sZH qqR vXre arxOnRfsDS YWUx S tJGRfxTCzh KZKTypKKlm
YwLOrPfHUpHLyhXlTW KXAioVK Z PV  xfhch    bvVSAK jvCeoQjLf lRJ qKZmmv P VAhd
.RE
.PP
A last paragraph in subsection 1 main body.
B cQ BIS aW Rx  Uk cHMNXpoi L wFc G VHoxjJL n EwL M e x Htvb RyGQhp zdVluUSz
aOWH gxP qPkhfrYd q LfBRU gyLBIAwQzX   AMiU gzCJyUo qIfyuOOHq d fDHHcm dBqyk
NSwquiROCkvo qe eIkueuB KbRg b tG  k RZEsRy SMVCoD OLoCQIxevGSBiZBAbYNAjowoW


which produces:


[
SUBSUBSECTIONS(1)            Test page           SUBSUBSECTIONS(1)

NAME
        subsubsections - subsubsections and tagged paragraphs

EXAMPLES
    Subsection 1
        Subsubsection 1a
               a  H sat aDjdcO IvBqp Ox T yIAzsxcLeAZU  DIOJbb DoI‐
               JBvRJyPShnztPVGALgXnM NcTL WVvBAUC gR  eT g  q  WHKW
               UXscJRAOTRfogVNkfVQ  boJ  lo xoVM  bHcPu sC dTgGludx
               CuiFcHKN MJQ vPun TUoaKffY  AdXhj  Q  H  M   UCikGOi
               InYNWS  oj eTcVvgmwNlz vVj iPGMiLDkT OlK  sdQXvKH uD
               ydkjY IcimXfwWgE XQEKHSM  dQ WJkwGSmtjMPyxV oDGzeM

               ZXSbzxQZBjr PyA KAB u  jIcYJpATs sE muorzIZ h NpFW y
               YnfvE  ilT  akQ  Ti  zoRo  k  pwqbX UNOL vW  qf wMTo
               atiARGlD g KOIroDP bfxt KwdRh orkVgh  T  wiHqzJhXgT‐
               GCGv MOe   RR  keCatsC K nrxy SiqdE uGjQstZ  hF T Oh
               i T gd xzS  TJ  aYTIEvSV HJU  QSDl   yRvVeVxvG  pcK‐
               XGqLQuk   DlnA wRFFT  UEI aiS fOtBIEi lNw iPK EbGNg‐
               glsnYNY

        Sss 1b
               RHqVVbf FVdNvFaYE DiPOq qO  c GMXPrjQ l  JPGtqugHFR‐
               JLBnfnUBOO  vlOnY fz  Guk E fWv  L T Mm KcfDy zMlVfZ
               P tz bJJewLDzl VS jh S oUfp  a PYz pimPs  JUfCIiR  O
               JlY  qsU  FwyYf  hKmhCBBSyn  K  RBymcA  xEgB SH tlgO
               tJcwU  YuD  zo  bpafen ui Q WITWH  sH   XOYPTjKYwJP‐
               PQqOzmGCr iqUmYTMqOuDnJvYURMlUHqXOOft Ag sabPen  DDt
               Cr

               rbramJITpptDi j VcmZUQQIoy y q XsDdWuZtV  RzSJ  QXyG
               DhoWYzGeZeLONDTnC  w   XXB  sJMCyfvk  phGTZAbR vHaGo
               lgGQG vEpzh bCWezP  vNQPE  iAtFTytRbEicCUiOGPt EjOVm
               T  CUBnVPv   Ks  ib xXefLXrrjMQi h  iOAukKpol SZjOhx
               pAaEOjKOlcmJTcA  rmmbU zEi IxiH IAK r  F  VCyLElK  F
               LGlT Ln vL GR bAJd pcFtdPglBh xwVy t  PRf y dCwU qAo

        Sss 1c
               KwR  qCVGT   p TY ES NzB  RE vVd r  ikIyAZikfnSbIEb‐
               jNbHbSdNSJ ZBpNXJHfhGBmvrKX ATK  iyMNWsM  cphndB  TS
               mA   wDxiSwXqTeX  gkKExwDp  cALEsFLz  boNvEicgtayKxp
               QR BdqqPe kV DzUaGqkYfSPAQag  nJpfFyn  sTOly  nVvHdu
               POThtmF  naNwiAqfdWh J vSljd VVavY kXzHmx iRE pxhHq‐
               JEvBfxcyBfT   Vf      bcvT      k    AVY    chVAcvFC
               gAqJuLLPBFToM

               ‐      cHLH  B  XilCiiytJSeKA FLybvy nS UdQvoQJEzDL‐
                      BlEjIB oDLifxGp pQij wz GLqTJ xvT CCh  qO   N
                      eroDCRHKpBrMusd  UufxhauhUgMheQ  jmmFer  JfrT
                      hejfv  celx M zIimVBh pXi IoMarRcfbxVD c  oC‐
                      nXycEsz  OP v R  VNcxFLDBpNf qa IkNTO boKp rS
                      eQvr CXtzx jC   aCx  SPPrUqP  DDPzxQTwu    MA
                      IJMZNQItktlsjse  dLya  vraWb KqphqRHC R rK

                      ZTMUL JtwGMYzpa  ZGMaDg e s UwbEYeZWMxdIG wPT
                      AGN  S  qgR  XspJYheEVsgbVjg   V   Zw   ZTMUL
                      JtwGMYzpa  ZGMaDg e s UwbEYeZWMxdIG wPT AGN S
                      qgR XspJYheEVsgbVjg V Zw  VaLpL  QHimRp  dfpH
                      qsPRZr  yPV ZjqwytaVfpnFd Vl  Z SL kHl  OVxQh
                      d   m PvOcpMu  MyCJCUC  XK  SkWKbuxpiF  WFmas
                      KEPWKVbItYz   EmCWCwaiKBTSRkzQYsuj  RUz RzZ v
                      jFv

               , . _  yxWVFwmw rl l TXfwoQv IpxO OoTg s Bkq mLGtC Q
                      fgmoZqrxxKFlzr    SGYJHqYZle    Kmif    ZTMUL
                      JtwGMYzpa  ZGMaDg e s UwbEYeZWMxdIG wPT AGN S
                      qgR  XspJYheEVsgbVjg  V  Zw qaremVFBr  ObLM y
                      SdDVB AWXhovLZgcSOV oFNfYMY ic  d  zdPyy  ubH
                      fkgG     q   B  uNM  wyPRz  XtFnCwFog  CWJihU
                      YSwxGVypxHWWt TjSv ppKVgHeOd ZaN Wlrb CjM pkW
                      vpRhZYz

                      ZC  M  zXqlNDeEAzdKUoJUXr  a zvWFCXbg PHl PjW
                      EiPXzrgznngY Ueq Fxrf  dSLBphPB  vuGadxM  IZO
                      dESBo   FqrZlf   g   nTp  PifCtJavfZSzpE  plz
                      PeDrYRyYC Wtz H M   lnFmzS x  BybdOdVOL  c  O
                      TkW  D  sZH  qqR vXre arxOnRfsDS YWUx S tJGR‐
                      fxTCzh KZKTypKKlm YwLOrPfHUpHLyhXlTW  KXAioVK
                      Z  PV  xfhch    bvVSAK jvCeoQjLf lRJ qKZmmv P
                      VAhd

        A last paragraph in subsection 1 main body.  B cQ BIS aW Rx
        Uk  cHMNXpoi L wFc G VHoxjJL n EwL M e x Htvb RyGQhp zdVlu‐
        USz aOWH gxP qPkhfrYd q LfBRU gyLBIAwQzX   AMiU gzCJyUo qI‐
        fyuOOHq d fDHHcm dBqyk NSwquiROCkvo qe eIkueuB KbRg b tG  k
        RZEsRy SMVCoD OLoCQIxevGSBiZBAbYNAjowoW

Linux                          2021              SUBSUBSECTIONS(1)
]

In this case we have line breaks after subsubsections, but not after 
normal tagged paragraphs.


If you don't have much time, I can fix it and send you the patch.


Thanks!

Alex

-- 
Alejandro Colomar
Linux man-pages comaintainer; https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/

  reply	other threads:[~2021-09-12 14:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-06 11:40 [PATCH] filename.7: new manual page Thaddeus H. Black
2021-09-06 14:21 ` Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)
2021-09-06 16:59   ` G. Branden Robinson
2021-09-06 21:47     ` Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)
2021-09-08  3:54       ` G. Branden Robinson
2021-09-08 14:56   ` Thaddeus H. Black
2021-09-08 15:45     ` Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)
2021-09-09  2:15       ` Thaddeus H. Black
2021-09-09  2:45         ` Thaddeus H. Black
2021-09-09  7:24         ` [PATCH 1/3] Remove unnecessary .P after .S[HS] Alejandro Colomar
2021-09-09  7:24         ` [PATCH 2/3] Fix indentation of paragraph, which continues talking about \0 Alejandro Colomar
2021-09-09  7:24         ` [PATCH 3/3] Use subsections instead of sections Alejandro Colomar
2021-09-09  7:28           ` [PATCH] .P -> .PP Alejandro Colomar
2021-09-12 14:20           ` [PATCH 3/3] Use subsections instead of sections Thaddeus H. Black
2021-09-12 14:49             ` Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) [this message]
2021-09-12 14:56               ` Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)
2021-09-12 15:22                 ` Thaddeus H. Black
2021-09-12 18:49                   ` G. Branden Robinson
2021-09-12 18:12                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2021-09-12 22:39                   ` Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)

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