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* Errors in man pages, here: random(4): Singular/Plural
@ 2020-04-19  6:48 Helge Kreutzmann
  2020-04-20  6:12 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Helge Kreutzmann @ 2020-04-19  6:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: mtk.manpages; +Cc: linux-man

Dear manpages maintainers.
the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
well for a large variety of target languages.

During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.

We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
each and every issue.

Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
your source format.

Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
them.

I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
future reports should use another channel, please let me know.

**

vary → varies ?

"This file gives the size of the entropy pool.  The semantics of this file "
"vary across kernel versions:"

-- 
      Dr. Helge Kreutzmann                     debian@helgefjell.de
           Dipl.-Phys.                   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
        64bit GNU powered                     gpg signed mail preferred
           Help keep free software libre: http://www.ffii.de/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: random(4): Singular/Plural
  2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: random(4): Singular/Plural Helge Kreutzmann
@ 2020-04-20  6:12 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  2020-04-27 14:14   ` Jakub Wilk
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-20  6:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Helge Kreutzmann; +Cc: mtk.manpages, linux-man

On 4/19/20 8:48 AM, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:
> Dear manpages maintainers.
> the manpage-l10n project maintains a large number of translations of
> man pages both from a large variety of sources (including manpages) as
> well for a large variety of target languages.
> 
> During their work translators notice different possible issues in the
> original (english) man pages. Sometiems this is a straightforward
> typo, sometimes a hard to read sentence, sometimes this is a convention
> not held up and sometimes we simply do not understand the original.
> 
> We use several distributions as sources and update regularly (at
> least every 2 month). This means we are fairly recent (some
> distributions like archlinux also update frequently) but might miss
> the latest upstream version once a while, so the error might be
> already fixed. We apologize and ask you to close the issue immediately
> if this should be the case, but given the huge volume of projects and
> the very limited number of volunteers we are not able to double check
> each and every issue.
> 
> Secondly we translators see the manpages in the neutral po format,
> i.e. converted and harmonized, but not the original source (be it man,
> groff, xml or other). So we cannot provide a true patch (where
> possible), but only an approximation which you need to translate into
> your source format.
> 
> Finally the issues I'm reporting have accumulated over time and are
> not always discovered by me, so sometimes my description of the
> problem my be a bit limited - do not hesitate to ask so we can clarify
> them.
> 
> I'm now reporting the errors for your project. As requested, each
> issue is sent in an unique mail for easier tracking on your side. If
> future reports should use another channel, please let me know.
> 
> **
> 
> vary → varies ?
> 
> "This file gives the size of the entropy pool.  The semantics of this file "
> "vary across kernel versions:"

"semantics" is considered a plural noun, so "vary" is right.

Thanks,

Michael


-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: random(4): Singular/Plural
  2020-04-20  6:12 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
@ 2020-04-27 14:14   ` Jakub Wilk
  2020-04-27 19:50     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Jakub Wilk @ 2020-04-27 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kerrisk; +Cc: Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

* Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>, 2020-04-20, 08:12:
>>vary → varies ?
>>
>>"This file gives the size of the entropy pool.  The semantics of this file "
>>"vary across kernel versions:"
>
>"semantics" is considered a plural noun, so "vary" is right.

I don't think that's correct. Despite the trailing "s", "semantics" is 
not plural; it's uncountable.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/semantics includes 
the following examples:

   The semantics of the language _is_ based on a translation, ...

   Action semantics _is_ useful for reasoning about language implementations.

-- 
Jakub Wilk

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: Errors in man pages, here: random(4): Singular/Plural
  2020-04-27 14:14   ` Jakub Wilk
@ 2020-04-27 19:50     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) @ 2020-04-27 19:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jakub Wilk; +Cc: mtk.manpages, Helge Kreutzmann, linux-man

Hi Jakub,

On 4/27/20 4:14 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> * Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>, 2020-04-20, 08:12:
>>> vary → varies ?
>>>
>>> "This file gives the size of the entropy pool.  The semantics of this file "
>>> "vary across kernel versions:"
>>
>> "semantics" is considered a plural noun, so "vary" is right.
> 
> I don't think that's correct. Despite the trailing "s", "semantics" is 
> not plural; it's uncountable.
> 
> https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/semantics includes 
> the following examples:
> 
>    The semantics of the language _is_ based on a translation, ...
> 
>    Action semantics _is_ useful for reasoning about language implementations.

So, this to me comes closest to how I use the word:

https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/semantics

[[
1 the study of the meaning of words and phrases
2 formal the meaning of a word or expression

GRAMMAR: Singular or plural verb?

In meaning 1, semantics is followed by a singular verb: 
  Semantics is not the same as syntax.
In meaning 2, semantics can be followed by a singular or plural verb: 
  The semantics of this phrase is/are difficult to pin down.
]]

Obviously there's a bit of variation in what people accept,
but for me, in meaning 2 (which matches the case in the man-page),
I'd always expect a plural.

And then I was about to say: "and it seems the original author
of the text was of the same opinion". But then I checked the
git log...

But do a Google or some such search for "semantics is" vs
"semantics are", and you'll see that the latter is very common.

Cheers,

Michael

-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-04-19  6:48 Errors in man pages, here: random(4): Singular/Plural Helge Kreutzmann
2020-04-20  6:12 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-04-27 14:14   ` Jakub Wilk
2020-04-27 19:50     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)

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