Linux-man Archive on lore.kernel.org
 help / color / Atom feed
From: enh <enh@google.com>
To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
Cc: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos@redhat.com>,
	"libc-alpha@sourceware.org" <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
	linux-man <linux-man@vger.kernel.org>,
	Zack Weinberg <zackw@panix.com>,
	Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>,
	Joseph Myers <joseph@codesourcery.com>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] Replacing "master-slave" terminology for pseudoterminals
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 10:25:05 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJgzZoqFvn649xG5XSNBmUutgGQ8b16ELhVsdf0XD0QwFrRtZw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <c756202e-7af8-c1b4-e99f-d77f3eae8c09@gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 12:48 AM Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
<mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Elliot,
>
> On 7/30/20 10:35 PM, enh wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 4:38 AM Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 7/30/20 5:16 AM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote:
> >>> I know what you mean. One reason for that verbosity is the need to
> >>> clearly distinguish "pseudoterminal device/end" from "pseudoterminal
> >>> device pair". It's hard to avoid being wordy there.
> >>
> >> The perfect is the enemy of the good. My feeling is that as others
> >> write this text in emails or discussions, we'll eventually all settle
> >> on some other short form we find agreeable and then later we can adjust
> >> the man pages to use that.
> >
> > based on my own brief experience, i'm expecting that _code_ will
> > settle on pty and tty. but if you're reading the man pages to
> > understand the concepts -- which are inherently quite confusing -- i
> > think spelling things out in longhand might remain useful in that
> > context.
> >
> >> Until then taking the lead to change this
> >> language is the correct way forward.
> >
> > yeah, definitely.
> >
> > i'd prefer for michael to go first -- since the bionic documentation
> > is basically just a link to man7.org, and even without that he's the
> > canonical source -- but i'm happy to go first and submit my change
> > first if it helps us make progress :-)
>
> I'd prefer to take this a little slowly. I don't plan to merge the
> changes just yet. I'm interested to get a bit more feedback first,
> including from Zack. (I'm guessing Zack is on holiday or so, which
> is why we've not heard from him.) Also, if we have rough consensus
> on this change, I would like to raise it with the POSIX folk; it
> would of course be great if there was a corresponding change in the
> standard, so that we all (all UNIX) have a common set of reference
> terms.

the good news is that it came up at this week's austin group meeting...

the bad news is that (afaik) none of us were there.

i had been planning to suggest we try to join next week anyway, to
avoid having this stall again.

> Cheers,
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Michael Kerrisk
> Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
> Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

  reply index

Thread overview: 10+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-07-29 10:39 Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-29 10:47 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-30  4:06 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-30  9:16   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-30 11:38     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-30 20:35       ` enh
2020-07-31  7:48         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-08-04 17:25           ` enh [this message]
2020-08-04 20:04             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found] ` <CAJgzZopP=O1cZ2M=3h6Q-X08+eVMPQE_zOCnsEjN=hUTHOkYwQ@mail.gmail.com>
2020-07-30  9:16   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=CAJgzZoqFvn649xG5XSNBmUutgGQ8b16ELhVsdf0XD0QwFrRtZw@mail.gmail.com \
    --to=enh@google.com \
    --cc=carlos@redhat.com \
    --cc=eggert@cs.ucla.edu \
    --cc=fweimer@redhat.com \
    --cc=joseph@codesourcery.com \
    --cc=libc-alpha@sourceware.org \
    --cc=linux-api@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-man@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mtk.manpages@gmail.com \
    --cc=zackw@panix.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

Linux-man Archive on lore.kernel.org

Archives are clonable:
	git clone --mirror https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/0 linux-man/git/0.git

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V2 linux-man linux-man/ https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man \
		linux-man@vger.kernel.org
	public-inbox-index linux-man

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://nntp.lore.kernel.org/org.kernel.vger.linux-man


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git