From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,INCLUDES_CR_TRAILER,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2070BC433E0 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:35:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB912231F for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 15:35:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2404561AbhARPeu (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jan 2021 10:34:50 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:39706 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S2405799AbhARPe0 (ORCPT ); Mon, 18 Jan 2021 10:34:26 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC73BC061574 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 07:33:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id 7so9622745wrz.0 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 07:33:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YS37yyTgSKp0i5Kq+nv1poGhsFwSKUYIitEjRLVRWB8=; b=PSSFuxTDWqlKYKbGRzzpH+ZCMy+3RcTDekdTnpV/K9n8Pm2HpN2YiEgzsXgztnQgjV 8Qo6gwihRQoHUSsJdfOVjRXVIosuoIkyiJRxsR9N5dPWiDJQsvHPcFv7G/StEInhnqAL J+aV9R9yM5yWLVZD7Omegnk6mc6a/51gUCx9LWb882JQIjRxWbaHsnYxPZl1W1B2qRwE ORqJZSpmto81vIvLgxcDRCSvVr/iBf231LwT2NJ96jFUMp5T8G22aH4ngq64D49Bvd1S N2wIOcTQi++1Uo2yqchTOC+rnIMTtD6g6ytNGdiSecZOVfFtwin3z6XH4oj+x7Jx/vX6 iHSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:from:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YS37yyTgSKp0i5Kq+nv1poGhsFwSKUYIitEjRLVRWB8=; b=gOYuel2EZ3lCwdsMqIoKqmEoM66QGWgle4Lffzce1WpxVSkekUTiOW/Ka4TWeEK3az PFiM9+7KymZjXtnELQTen6Q/VYjif/yc3/yUJtOu75XCwyNxf3XG6oADu+5cX4p6POyc 3IFMTHVkvtzXLKIt/9LeoLzIl6AoxD5MeUCa+9Gn8lu8OATDLGlJVCOFHUWIyRSgDK/a hMcRlsV9yM8nGx8MUjB11clpAMZJ9WFebhHWozy8cs+vESksha15bopggYheM7o2eYJg qaxbC/OTGj5sPef7pzNWST3rjtx7l/cntYDl0HfXFo8Ua23lb2UnnvfoelbUnEN4IMaP P/Pg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531JcisXPjMVJk64LPZKt/06UvE2UC/t1gXHQt+ZXewKKmOboevh xOicbZ0n6M/82Quz7cMyMXTPpVHkw3g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxI/jSxWUAKbrDF+R18eYL3pbB8D8Q3It8yL0LnL1XrBq10EATmANtZihyfxsKLm9DYwR33/Q== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4a06:: with SMTP id m6mr20341wrq.189.1610984023538; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 07:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.143] ([170.253.51.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id f7sm14897878wmg.43.2021.01.18.07.33.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Jan 2021 07:33:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ping: [PATCH] netlink.7, tcp.7: tfix: s/acknowledgment/acknowledgement From: "Alejandro Colomar (man-pages)" To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org References: <20210107165518.36629-1-alx.manpages@gmail.com> <59156288-13c4-ca10-ade3-5b83cd7c0902@gmail.com> <39255c4b-3d54-cae5-14ec-6122cfef8072@gmail.com> <6280e52d-17bd-ea1e-49ac-a23f9e86f51c@gmail.com> Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 16:33:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:84.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/84.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6280e52d-17bd-ea1e-49ac-a23f9e86f51c@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org Hi Michael, Ping! And now I noticed, while searching for this email: Debian uses "acknowledgement" too :p [ From: "Debian Bug Tracking System" To: Alejandro Colomar Subject: Bug#978945: Acknowledgement (thunderbird: Message subwindow tilts (resizes in a loop)) ] Kind regards, Alex On 1/8/21 2:34 PM, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote: > On 1/8/21 2:23 PM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> Hello Alex, >> >> On 1/8/21 12:36 PM, Alejandro Colomar (man-pages) wrote: >>> >>> On 1/8/21 11:29 AM, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >>>> Hi Alex, >>>> >>>> On 1/7/21 5:55 PM, Alejandro Colomar wrote: >>>>> Signed-off-by: Alejandro Colomar >>>> >>>> Take a look at >>>> >>>> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=acknowledgment%2Cacknowledgement&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=5&smoothing=3 >>>> >>>> and compare American English vs British English using the drop-down. >>>> >>>> When I inherited man-pages in 2004, it was a hodge-podge mix of >>>> American vs British spelling. My native spelling is the latter, >>>> but I value consistency and felt that things needed to be >>>> standardized on one or other, and in computing, American is the >>>> norm so that is what I settled on.hodge-podge >>>> >>>> I'm largely at piece with American spelling these days (it >>>> is the spelling I use in most of my writing), but I guess >>>> the one point that still bothers me are the American spellings >>>> "acknowledgment" and "judgment". They just feel wrong. >>> >>> Yup >>> >>>> >>>> However, I now learned from the Ngrams that even in British >>>> English, the spelling without "e" was historically the norm. >>>> So it seems that it is British English that has changed, >>>> not American English! >>>> >>>> I was about to say that I must decline this patch. And then >>>> I thought I'd take a look at the POSIX standard. It seems >>>> to largely follow American spelling (e.g., "color", "canceled", >>>> "recognize", "analog").[1] But, it uses "acknowledgement"! >>>> (There are even a couple of instances of "judgement" in >>>> the standard.) It seems like others like to have the >>>> extra "e' in those words... >>>> >>>> So, I'm not sure what to do with this patch. >>> >>> Hey Michael, >>> >>> D'oh, I thought it was a typo! :-) >>> >>> American English surprises me. >>> >>> Yes I prefer American English, but I've also learn_ed_ British at >>> school, (and learnt American through the internet), so I have a weird >>> hodge-podge in my head too :p >>> >>> I guess many people though it was a typo from the data you put. Also see: >>> >>> $ grep -r acknowledgement \ >>> |wc -l; >>> grep: man7/.hostname.7.swp: binary file matches >>> 69 >>> $ grep -r acknowledgment \ >>> |wc -l; >>> 23 >> >> Okay -- this gets weirder and weirder. Look more closely >> at what the grep found. Those instances of 'acknowledgement' >> are almost all in the page comments containing BSD licenses! >> >> I thought to myself, that's strange: because BSD is from >> California... Maybe some enthusiastic person did a >> global edit in the distant past to change this to British >> spelling in the Linux manual pages. But, it doesn't seem that >> way. I grepped a few thousand header files that I've assembled >> over the years from various OSes, and in the BSD licenses, >> the vast majority use 'acknowledgement'. A few use >> 'acknowledgment', but I suspect that those were changed >> after importing from other places. >> >> It seems that the underground spelling resistance was strong >> at Berkeley. >> >>> Nevertheless, I prefer American too, so I'd invert the patch. >>> What about s/acknowledgement/acknowledgment/? >> So, I still don't know what to do. I never much liked >> the "American" "*dgment", but: >> >> (1) That seems to have been the historical form that >> British English moved away from. >> >> (2) A couple of "American" groups (BSD, POSIX) use >> the "British" spelling. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Michael >> >> PS I want to join the spelling resistance :-) > > Hello Michael, > > That made me think about it again, and well, a language isn't what books > say, but what people actually use. That's something I learnt from the > Catalan language, which some institutions constantly try to normalize > differently than common usage, and it's weird, very very weird. > > So, if most people use *dgement, I'd say the word is correctly spelled > *dgement. > > But we need a common spelling, because I was searching in vim for the > word, and it was very weird because I knew the word was there, but it > didn't show it to me. I had to manually move to the line to see that it > was written differently, on the same page! :/ > > So I hereby insist on my initial patch :-} > > Cheers, > > Alex > > -- Alejandro Colomar Linux man-pages comaintainer; https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/ http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/