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([2001:a61:2482:101:a081:4793:30bf:f3d5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v5sm26892576wrr.93.2020.05.13.04.46.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 13 May 2020 04:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: mtk.manpages@gmail.com, linux-man@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/14] prctl.2: ffix quotation mark tweaks To: Dave Martin References: <1589301419-24459-1-git-send-email-Dave.Martin@arm.com> <1589301419-24459-7-git-send-email-Dave.Martin@arm.com> <7afe32a5-9675-74d4-7c39-f1271d475afd@gmail.com> <20200513113949.GI21779@arm.com> From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 13:46:22 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200513113949.GI21779@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-man-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org On 5/13/20 1:39 PM, Dave Martin wrote: > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:11:21PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: >> Hello Dave, >> >> On 5/12/20 6:36 PM, Dave Martin wrote: >>> Convert quote marks used for information terms in prose to use >>> \(oq .. \(cq, for better graphical rendering. >>> >>> Signed-off-by: Dave Martin >> >> Again, this is a patch that I would prefer to see near the end >> of a series, rather than in the middle. >> >> I'm currently agnostic about this change. But, I do not >> want to apply this patch, since no other pages in man-pages >> use \(oq...\(cq. >> >> I haven't applied this patch. Luckily, that does not prevent >> any of the later patches applying. > > I'll be careful to move this sort of thing to the end of a series in > future. > > This was a provocative patch, so I'm happy for it to be dropped. > > > The main motivation was that ' renders to PostScript etc. as a closing > quote, which is fine for apostrophes but not fine for an opening quote > mark. Most of the current quotes in here are actually ", but I don't > see an actual promise from groff that that renders as a neutral glyph > either, so it seemed best to avoid. For now " does seem to be rendered > with a neutral glyph (i.e., neither opening or closing). See my commit 11b0b31a14bd2c7dcb0cf7bc815b4c1887444a89, just pushed, which addresses the ' issues. >>> --- >>> >>> Note, this can lead to misrendering on badly-configured systems. >>> However, many man pages do it. >> >> Can you say some more about this please? > > Terminal character maps need to match LANG etc. in order for fancy > characters coming out of nroff to display correctly. > > ssh attempts to send LANG across, but terminal sessions between systems > that have different locales installed can be a problem, as can dumb > serial links that don't magically pass the locale and terminal type > settings across. > > The fact that I hit this problem a lot in some situations (particularly > the serial link case) suggested to me that fancy characters are > considered fine nowadays, but perhaps I'd need to dig into it some more > to understand the situation fully. Thanks for the clarification. > (There are one or two ' that should really be \(aq anyway, but I'll > try to address that separately.) See above. I presume that patch is what you wanted? Cheers, Michael -- Michael Kerrisk Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/ Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/