Hi!

On 4/7/23 17:06, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2023 09:43:19 -0500
>> From: "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>
>> Cc: alx.manpages@gmail.com, dirk@gouders.net, cjwatson@debian.org,
>> 	linux-man@vger.kernel.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org, groff@gnu.org
>>
>> ...which brings me to the other factor, of which I'm more confident: man
>> page rendering times are much lower than they were in Unix's early days.
>>
>> On my system, all groff man pages but one render in between a tenth and
>> a fortieth of a second.  The really huge pages like groff(7),
>> groff_char(7), and groff_diff(7) are toward the upper end of this range,
>> because they are long, at ~20-25 U.S. letter pages when formatted for
>> PostScript or PDF, or have many large tables so the tbl(1) preprocessor
>> produces a lot of output.
>>
>> The outlier is groff_mdoc(7) at just over one-third of a second.
> 
> Some people consider 0.1 sec, let alone 0.3 sec, to be long enough to
> be annoying.
> 
> Also, did you try with libpng.3 or gcc.1?

$ time man -w gcc | xargs zcat | groff -man -Tutf8 2>/dev/null >/dev/null

real	0m0.406s
user	0m0.534s
sys	0m0.042s

But as others said, I don't really care about the time it takes to format
the entire document, but rather the first 24 lines, which is more like
instantaneous (per your own definition of ~0.5 s).

$ time man -w gcc | xargs zcat | groff -man -Tutf8 2>/dev/null | head -n24 >/dev/null
xargs: zcat: terminated by signal 13

real	0m0.064s
user	0m0.051s
sys	0m0.030s


As a curiosity, mandoc(1) seems to be faster for rendering the entire document, but slower to "start reading".

$ time man -w gcc | xargs zcat | mandoc >/dev/null

real	0m0.270s
user	0m0.218s
sys	0m0.057s

$ time man -w gcc | xargs zcat | mandoc | head -n24 >/dev/null

real	0m0.136s
user	0m0.119s
sys	0m0.023s


As a disclaimer, I do sometimes care about reading entire documents,
but even in that case, it's not so bad.  I can read the few thousand man
pages in the Linux man-pages in about a few seconds, or a minute.  [1]


> 
>>   Human subjects need a minimum of about 0.1 second of visual experience
>>   or about .01 to .02 second of auditory experience to perceive
>>   duration; any shorter experiences are called instantaneous.
>>   -- Encyclopædia Britannica[2]
> 
> IME, 0.05 sec of visual experiences is closer to reality.

This is the time to load the first 24 lines of almost any page.
gcc(1), which is one of the longest I have, takes 0.6 s.  MAX(3),
which is one of the shortest I have, takes 0.4 s.

> 
> Anyway, I won't argue.

Cheers,

Alex


[1]:  Here's why I do care about time to lead entire pages.  I know
      I can optimize this pipeline by calling groff(1) directly, or even
      better, mandoc(1), now that I know it's faster for entire docs,
      but since I haven't used this function for a long time, I didn't
      spend time optimizing it.

man_lsfunc()
{
	if [ $# -lt 1 ]; then
		>&2 echo "Usage: ${FUNCNAME[0]} <manpage|manNdir>...";
		return $EX_USAGE;
	fi

	for arg in "$@"; do
		man_section "$arg" 'SYNOPSIS';
	done \
	|sed_rm_ccomments \
	|pcregrep -Mn '(?s)^ [\w ]+ \**\w+\([\w\s(,)[\]*]*?(...)?\s*\); *$' \
	|grep '^[0-9]' \
	|sed -E 's/syscall\(SYS_(\w*),?/\1(/' \
	|sed -E 's/^[^(]+ \**(\w+)\(.*/\1/' \
	|uniq;
}


man_section()
{
	if [ $# -lt 2 ]; then
		>&2 echo "Usage: ${FUNCNAME[0]} <dir> <section>...";
		return $EX_USAGE;
	fi

	local page="$1";
	shift;
	local sect="$*";

	find "$page" -type f \
	|xargs wc -l \
	|grep -v -e '\b1 ' -e '\btotal\b' \
	|awk '{ print $2 }' \
	|sort \
	|while read -r manpage; do
		(sed -n '/^\.TH/,/^\.SH/{/^\.SH/!p}' <"$manpage";
		 for s in $sect; do
			<"$manpage" \
			sed -n \
				-e "/^\.SH $s/p" \
				-e "/^\.SH $s/,/^\.SH/{/^\.SH/!p}";
		 done;) \
		|man -P cat -l - 2>/dev/null;
	done;
}


man_lsfunc() is quite slow, but it's acceptable to me, since I only
run it sporadically.

-- 
<http://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
GPG key fingerprint: A9348594CE31283A826FBDD8D57633D441E25BB5